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Discussion

RCSU in self-destructive streak

The comments below are unmoderated submissions by Live! readers. The Editor accepts no liability for their content, nor for any offence caused by them. Any complaints should be directed to the Editor.
Nov 14 2001 23:56
 

Do Constituent College Unions really play no part in promoting a "community spirit"?

Click Here for the Full Article

Nov 15 2001 02:08
 

A bold step - the first of many?

Nov 15 2001 02:10
 

In fact one senior representative of ICU present at the meeting commented confidentially while i was listening at doorways, that it was "some of the best and most mature discussion that they had heard"

definite congratulations to the RCSU for doing something different

Less politics - More students

3. Dan L   
Nov 15 2001 08:05
 

I suppose the next step will be for ICU to take over the world. No doubt people would vote for that too.

Nov 15 2001 12:33
 

The pub crawl raised a MASSIVE ?264.25

bringing the RCSU RAG total to over ?570 !!!!

Just a point about the rather bad picture at the top, you could do better. I believe that the ex(RCSU) rag total is ?570 more than C&Gs!!!!

The RCSU self anihlated because no students bothered to stop it, cos they didn't care. C&G are in a different position but not a better one!

Nov 15 2001 12:42
 

Yes. The picture really does seem rather irrelevant. I blame the author's lack of talent ;-)

Nov 15 2001 13:17
 

Well, I got this from the RCSU website last night - anyone else looking at this would probably still think the RCSU haven't raised any RAG funds yet!

Nov 15 2001 13:52
 

Or...

The RCSU self annihilated because the *rest-of-the-Union* did not bother to stop it, cos they didn't care. IE and Windows did not self annihilate when customers did not care about the version 1s.

Nov 15 2001 15:04
 

Methinks that the RCSU left the RAG totaliser as 0 because it is funny. Unlike some people, RCSU types seem to have a sense of humour.

Nov 15 2001 17:17
 

Can we please stop talking about the totaliser. Yes, we left it there because it was funny. At some point, we will update it.

Meanwhile, can we discuss the implications of the paper instead?

Nov 15 2001 17:38
 

I really don't think any of this is important

Nov 15 2001 17:39
 

Sure, my putting the RAG totaliser image up with this article was also meant as a joke - no offence intended to any RCSU people! It certainly wasn't intended to take attention away from the real issue... (but as a side issue, well done to RCSU for raising money for RAG - you've done a much better job so far than C&GCU!)

Nov 15 2001 18:14
 

No need to mention medic's rag I suppose - ?42,000 - oops sorry.

13. KOG   
Nov 15 2001 19:03
 

This has been brewing for over 5 years... at least *someone* has finally taken the decision to formally table it and get it discussed.

Three points of note:

1. Tabling it at an emergency Council is non-optimal. This issue needs as full a complement of people as possible turning up, and discussing it at five days' notice is, frankly, not on.

2. As I'm sure you're aware, this change would require a 2/3 majority at two successive Council meetings, held at least 3 weeks and not more than 8 weeks apart, *and* the consent of the College Council.

3. Convenient that the last Constitutional review removed the automatic right of attendance for non-Full Members. Personally, I couldn't be there anyway, as I have a meeting on the other side of London. But that's life.

Nov 16 2001 00:41
 

I wasn't intending to take any more papers for Council.

There will be one paper, called "Paper A" in which the President of Imperial College Union (one Mr. Sen Ganesh) will present a detailed breakdown of the options available to us, as a result of all the discussions he has had in recent weeks. This is exactly what he is mandated to by the paper (http://www.su.ic.ac.uk/council/01-02/november/m_faculties.htm) presented at the last council, which precipitated this meeting.

There will follow a discussion of the various options presented to us, and if necessary a vote.

The proposal of the RCSU to disband will doubtless be addressed in this Paper A, as will all other options resulting from discussions. I therefore see no need to accept other Papers.

See you on Tuesday!

Nov 16 2001 09:20
 

Perhaps we are forgetting the true meaning of this.

Point 1 of the proposal is a call for all CCUs to disband, not just the RCSU. There can be no halfway house between this. What is done for one union must be applied to all of them. This means that it would probably create stiff opposition to it if it went to council to vote (which it won't). People will be voting on Sen's paper (which they know).

They (the RCSU) hope that Sen will keep key parts of this, and these parts will generate agreement between parties. They also hope that Sen will take in what the RCS students have said to them. We also hope for positive input from the Guildsmen (and Guildswomen), the Miners, and the Medics, so that a full discussion at council can ensue.

We should just wait and see what Sen actually puts in his paper, and then it can be discussed, ammended (if allowed and as needed), and then voted on.

Also, as a subnote, the very fact that they have written this, means that they are willing to give the new freshers (2002/2003 intake) a new start in forming their own traditions and history (and mascotry, if decided) in whatever way they want.

PS. If RCS students want to disband their union then so be it. They also pointed out that they don't want the other CCUs as well (just one main IC Union).

Nov 16 2001 12:19
 

Indeed, it was the CCU presidents who gave ICU a kick up the backside and mandated the two-week paper proposal.

As a third year Medic, I would like to add my own view on the matter.

I have been a member of several ICU clubs for the last two years precisely because the ICSM equivalents were a shambles!

It seems to me that ICSM is wrapped up in its own self-promotion and not realising the fact that it is now part of ICU and not an independent body.

The CSC I operate under doesn't have this power hungry attitude the CCU's appear to care more about than the students themselves.

From what I can tell, most CCU clubs would benefit from transferring to a CSC because they have their consituent members concerns at the heart of their operation and not as a sideline and not as a means of promoting their power in the Union.

I don't see any CSC chairs planning to take over the world, just darn CCU people coming in and moaning that they are being stripped of their duties when they could have done something to improve their student activities a long time ago.

Focus on the students!

It is ironic to see Lorne McEwan proposing to do just this when it was under his power hungry "regime" that I found it necessary to turn my back on my constituent union and find somebody who knew what they were talking about in ICU.

I think the paper makes a lot of sense.

Clearly there is a place for a new Faculty Union of some sort but only if the attitudes of its officers are focused towards students and not their own personal gains.

17. Lorne   
Nov 16 2001 13:41
 

Points well said.

You are lucky that you at least had a choice, if you do not like what your CCU provides, you always have ICU to fall back on, something that has worked well. But with no alternative, what would you have done?

18. Dinesh   
Nov 16 2001 14:17
 

Well... I think this is stereotyping; it all depends on the people at the time and at the place.

  • ICU Postgraduate Group is an obvious shambles, but a similar club in CGCU worked for some reason.
  • When I was Guilds President we really didn?t care what ICU were doing, as long as they weren?t doing it to us. (I wonder if anyone noticed...)

You?ll notice this is about the only possible scenario in which you could mention the last statement with any kind of pride :-)

I?m getting bored. Anyone for a game of pool?

Nov 17 2001 09:59
 

Yes it is I, the bane of many ICU committees and the person who as acting Chemistry Dep Rep told ICU Council to start representing and stop fiddling constantly with its consitution - I think Sarah White left the room at that point, making Council inquorate :)

Anyway - now I'm over in the other end of town doing my PhD, I couldn't quite believe it when the RCSU's paper popped into my inbox... two weeks' of "discussion" and total abolition on a whim appears to be the order of the day... after the ICU EGM and probable referendum, no doubt... I am sure someone can organise a medic block-vote! (one of those got be on to Council in a by-election I seem to recall).

If you want to see what type of structure you will end up with, just look at Queen Mary Students' Union - no faculty representation, weak council, cliquey exec and very very very insular. This is because there is only one way to get your voice heard and get involved in QMSU... at ICU there are many MANY ways - and that is what will be the biggest loser. Council will not be able to get representative from as many constituencies as possible.

If I have time on Monday, I will be sending the Council Chair a letter, which he has kindly agreed to read out. It will be toned diplomatically and won't interfer in your decision - it will just point to what you may lose and never recover based on my experience at both IC and QM.

Now, off to Nottingham to BUSA and to find real ale... when is the next beer festival :)

Dec 21 2001 00:32
 

IC has 10,000 students. To say that 99% of is don't give a toss about any of the Unions (ICU, CGCU, RSCU etc.) would be some kind of an understatement.

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