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Close some universities to avoid top-up fees

The comments below are unmoderated submissions by Live! readers. The Editor accepts no liability for their content, nor for any offence caused by them. Any complaints should be directed to the Editor.
Jan 12 2003 19:24

Solve the funding crisis by concentrating on vocational training, argues the ICU President.

Jan 13 2003 07:10

It might be staring them in the face. But it isn't one of those solutions that can be implemented overnight, or even in a few years.

Jan 13 2003 09:40

How strange that Sen used his full name to sign off the article... Is there a poltergeist around? We should be told!

Jan 13 2003 10:39

I share much of what is written here. Now lets drive it forward.

Ropey universities and ropey course just simply have to go.

After all this is just "tax and waste" policy, isn't it?

Jan 13 2003 11:02

This is the correct policy (Sen has got something right, shock horror!) is already in existence in theory so it can be implemented straight away....

IIRC the whole point of tution fees in the first place was to introduce market conditions in the university sector. Courses (and unis) that did not get enough people on them would close as they would not get money from the government.

When the government starts facing up to this policy and closes some universities by not giving them easy hand outs, the policy will work. It can start this October if the government wants it to.

5. idris   
Jan 13 2003 16:14

The vocational / non-vocational divide is humbug I think. The real determinant of the use of a course is its rigour, be that in a purely abstract sense (eg physics) or applied (eg NVQ plumbing). Both enhance the students' employment chances. A bad vocational course is no more useful than a bad PPE degree.

6. ...   
Jan 13 2003 20:51

I don't think we should listen to a president that lies.

Jan 13 2003 21:01

Even got Margaret Hodge being quoted on Mickey Mouse degrees....

8. Seb   
Jan 15 2003 02:19

Hear hear!


Vocational/non vocational is not so much a humbug. A vocational degree (Hairdressig) is a nonsense, as you operate under an accademic style structure and get taught about hairdressing rather than how to be a hairdresser.

In Physics (at IC at least) you get taught to be a Physicist.

You may call it rigor, but I think it boils down to the same thing. If you want a rigorously trained plumber, you don't send him to an endless series of lectures on pipes, and then have him sit down and fill in an exam booklet. Somewhere, you need to give him a spanner and a broken pipe. Or something like that.

Jan 15 2003 09:37

I have to agree with Seb. There is a distinct shortage of electricians and plumbers in this country at the moment, simply because the number of people that leave school and then start apprenticeships is stupidly low. Why? Because they've been convinced that to go to Uni is the thing to do even if it is to study something like surf studies or worse still things that are better learned actually doing the job. SO when your washing machine starts to flood and you need it fixed, you have to wait for a plumber cos they're all over subscribed to jobs and writing their own cheques as there's no one else to do it.

10. Sam   
Jan 15 2003 09:49


I'll fix your washing machine... it's all i'm qualified for...

Rob Park,

"Ropey universities and ropey course just simply have to go."

Wouldn't that close down Queen Marys?

Jan 15 2003 10:09

Sam, sorry it ain't actually broke, although last time i used it the drier part of it didn't seem to have worked. You could be earning loadsamunny part time fixing things then?

Jan 21 2003 21:34

Agree completely. s*** courses and s*** unis have to be closed. Those that admit over 50% of their intake with only one grade E A-level should go first. Thick people getting worthless degrees is second on my list of pet hates, after people who smoke next to me.

Jan 21 2003 21:43

The son of a friend of my mum was one of these one grade E at A-level people (actually I think I am being unfair - they got two grade Es and one N). They ended up with a 1st in engineering from the metropolitan univerisity of f***dom. Funny thing is my mum's friend thinks this is better than the 2:1 my sister got from Imperial in Physics and the 2:1 my brother got from Cambridge in law. Scary thing is that the world it littered with ignorant people like this.

14. Becky   
Jan 22 2003 14:50

People should be made to retake A'levels constantly till they get above Cs before they can start a degree!

As for people who don't understand about 1sts from pants unis, don't worry. The first question on all the graduate recruitment websites i looked at was "how many UCAS points do you have (and if it's under 21 don't bother)"

15. *H*   
Aug 28 2005 01:16

The UK will have it's entire socio-economic structure destroyed by the education system now in place!Because people with very low intelligence entering low qaulity universities will never earn enough to pay their debts!Elites at qaulity universities who enter a profession or management will be hampered by debt because they will also face higher taxation/national insurance thus financial investments and entreprenial projects will be fewer!All markets will feel the impact of the debt;property and financial services being the first to suffer!The public sector will expand to absorb useless graduates and as a lure to those in bluecollar families who aspire to whitecollar work!Gifted people in the private sector will need to work hard to pay for taxation to fund such!

16. Steve   
Aug 28 2005 01:51

Slight overuse of the exclamation mark. Bring back the full stop.

17. n/a   
Aug 29 2005 21:45

That was meant to be a parody, right, *H*?

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