I, as many other students, would rather associate myself with the famous Imperial College, rather than the non-existent City and Guilds College. That does not ofcourse stop us from glorifying our long history.

I personally think that we should call ourselves 'Imperial College Engineering Union.

wait a minute!

1. We are not a professional union but a students union - so Imperial College Engineering Union is innaccurate. What about 'Imperial College Engineering Students Union'.

2. This would also reflect the fact that a lot of our students arent going to be engineers but use that training in other professional areas

If you look at the medics - they call their union 'the medics STUDENTS union' not the 'medics union' because they are not professionals (yet). It woldnt make sense if they did.

If you want to join an enginnering union join AMICUS. http://www.amicustheunion.org/

I thought some people already called us ICESU - Imperial College Engineering Students' Union. And some others call us FOESU - Faculty of Engineering Students' Union.

So the moment RCSU comes back, CGCU wants to vanish into corporate-esque facelessness!

Would ICESU also scrap all that old-fashioned regalia, and instead sell ICESU-branded blue ariel ID-card lanyards?

(by the way, clever tactic up there- trying to pull the debate into ICEU v. ICESU and ignoring the other options)

At least no-one has suggested you be called '"We Do Maths, You Do Biology: Let's Do Maths and Biology Together" Self Help Network Union'.

Stoopid Mathematicians, they completely forget the Physicists...

Grr...

I think our arrogant President should get on with doing something serious (like ensuring that Engineering students are properly represented) rather than trying to stamp his mark on C&G's history by abandoning a brand that has served us well for nearly 80 years.

Hear Hear!! Is 'brand-awareness' really an issue for CGCU anyway? Most of the engineers seem to know what it is, the events are well attended and so on. A name change would harm this, if anything. It would also further distance it from the RSM students (who are not engineers by any stretch of the imagination).

Perhaps if the President does indeed want a legacy, he ought to focus on something that will benefit his Union. He has made a start with mascotry, and could further this by collaborating with the RCSU and RSM and encouraging more inter-faculty competition both on the sports field and around campus.

You say RSMU is explicit enough- would it really be obvious that "Miners" clearly refers to geologists and materials scientists, were it not for the tradition and common knowledge that at IC, "Miners" refers to those groups? ...The same kind of tradition that tell us that the "Guildsmen" represented by C&G refers to engineers?

I don't know how good a litmus test Live! is of what students really want, I would be quite happy with "City & Guilds Engineering Union".

Right time for me to add my bit:

1) I am the person who nominated the current name in the election whilst I was running for Hon Sec in 2002.

2) There were a number of reasons we went for CGCU. They were:

a) We have many contacts in the City who know us as CGCU.

b) We felt history was more important - especially in a college where every tradition is being thrown out.

c) People do actually give us money because we are CGCU - look at sponsorship for events, sabb fund and hardship aid for students.

d) We felt links with the CGCA were important to maintain - www.cgca.org.uk

e) The RSM were keeping their name - why shouldn't we so the same.

f) ICEU, ICESU, FOESA, FESA etc.. sounds c**p, as do all the other suggestions - CGCU has a worldwide reputation - I went to France in my 1st year with Bo' - and all alumni and companies we got sponsored by knew CGCU.

g) Dropping "college" - links us to the CGI, who give vocational qualifications - not what we are. Ultimately a faculty is simply a college within what is about to become a university.

h) Does it really make sense to ditch a brand which is nearly 110 years old - it has done us well for that long - and will continue to do so.

i) The majority of students wanted CGCU back at the original election - fairly convincing to me!

Finally Guildsman should be proud to be from Guilds, and ultimately students of the "City & Guilds College Union".

The scientists are still proud of RCSU - as people have said - I think the Exec should concentrate on actually promoting inter C&G, RSM, and RCS events - lets see the return of Morphy day, Annual Tug of War and what was inter-ccu sport!

If a had to choose between

1) Name/Brand historical legacy

2) Making up a name to help new students

I would by all means choose legacy. New students can always ask, or be told.

Isn't CGCU mentioned in people's (engineers) Welcome Packs when they arrive at College? And doesn't it mention a brief history of CGCU, including the name?

My senses tell me that CGCU is 'the one'. None of this branding mularkey.

The time has come to modernise. We need to rebrand in order to reach out to all engineers.

I would go for ICESU.

How about "Imperial College Guild of Engineering Students"?

:-P

Shrenik - get back to your coursework!

Mustafa - have you started yours???

How about The New City & Guilds College Union. Sid can then stand for elections twice more and win...

I think (and I always have) that we should be called:

Imperial College New Union of Technical Students

ICNUTS would have many links with tradition; Bolt has a Nut so we'd be retaining that essential link. Spanners turn Nuts. We must never forget that most of the original heavy engineering focused around connecting big bits of metal with nuts and bolts.

I happen to think that NUTS describes the current flavour of Guilds{men|women} perfectly well and will help them be seen in the City for what they are.

Please campaign to have your President declared of NUTS so he can dedicate some time to representing students rather than dicking around with all-faculty emails about non-issues.

Even if you were to dick with the name, you might want to consult the Alumni first...(most of them aren't on your all-faculty list); they're the reason you have a successful Internship Centre and kind of representation what so ever. Plus, they built it up for the last 110 years, so they'd be pretty p***ed that you're tearing it down.

And while we're on the subject; That "election" for the name was free and fair, yet it still elected the old name. Do you know why that was?

It's because all the names proposed then and all the names proposed now sound like they come from a 3rd rate poly with a squished-arial logo.

Have some pride man, you don't have to let them win.

Hows about Nu C&GCU? along the same lines of Nu Metal and Metal.

City and Guilds College may yet return under a new rector, if we get one who understands that a core part of the qualities of an institution is its history. One of my attractions to the place was the bizarre history and college-within-college format.

Oxbridge - and most Universities worth their salt - have a long history and a crest. Most former polytechnics don't. Dropping the crest was a mistake by College, having the unions drop the history too would weaken alumni ties.

What would you rather do, explain the history in a short paragraph as part of the introduction pack ("what is CGCU?") to students who are unlikely to give much money ... or explain "will we used to be CGCU but decided to go 'modern and trendy' because rebranding is the way to represent people better. Really? You don't think that's right?"

Rebranding/renaming and throwing away history is often a sign of a failing company/institution which feels the need to reinvent itself, or of poor management which can't think of anything more productive to do. I said something similar when College rebranded - look at the productive schemes: abortive merger, sticky vinyl signs (which have now been replaced with signs which look a bit smarter), dress code, re-merging a faculty which was split not too long ago in a restructuring which destroyed the history of the place.

FIND SOMETHING MORE PRODUCTIVE TO DO.

I actually fear for C&G this year. I don't know what it is, but I have a sinking-ship feeling.

hahaha

Go on Sid, emulate Sir Richard a bit more, and he might give you a job when you leave!! Maybe you could manage the new Faculty of Useful Campaigns Without Intentional Terminology (Dress Code) or chair the committee for deciding the best colour to repaint the top of the Queens Tower....

or you could just run the Union, not hand over thousands to managers, fight for the Mech Eng library, maintain alumni contacts and sell more hoodies, I suppose

I aggree with Ashley on the Oxbridge point. Why is this institution unable to preserve its legacy? The college administration made a mistake, we don't have to make the same.

Shrenik,

We don't want your University College London (no shortened version!) traitor views about CGCU.

You were a guildsman - obviously by your shift to Gower St and your new views, you are not anymore.

In the old days - traitors were punished with public hangings, maybe 6 of the best with a 64lb brass spanner will teach you to bad mouth the Fellowship of the Guilds.

Dear All,

It seems that you are under the impression that I am pushing the name change as part of my agenda, unlike some past presidents, I do not work unilaterally. Indeed, the point of going through the whole process of asking C&G exec and then this sub-ctte. whether we should be doing this meant that I am perhaps representing the students that many of you think I am not.

If some of you think you are not being represented, please raise it with your academic reps who will raise it with me or please walk into Room 340 in Mech. Eng. the doors to the C&G office are open everyday till 11pm.

And, if you think you ever wondered whether your "heckling" on Live! had any influence, well I have made a note of your agreements/disagreements and will certainly take them to the executive when we decide on whether to move to a referendum.

I suggest we give the C&G President six of the best with Spanner too...

...i.e. if you can find Spanner

I personally believe that C&G should remain C&G! Introducing “Engineering” instead of “College” into the current name might benefit future engineering freshers, as it would be more obvious that they are apart of the C&G, and technically we are no longer a college.

Contrary to this, if departmental societies advertised CGCU where possible (such as their web sites and advertisement material), then students would know more about CGCU. If students are not told what City & Guilds is about, and constantly reminded (the “Spanner” publication is a great introduction, but most students tend to forget such information quite easily), then CGCU is not going to be that active. Most engineering students are “too busy” to look for CGCU, so it’s a case of CGCU shouting out who they are in order to maintain the student interest.

Clearly the freshers ball sell out indicates that the CGCU has generated reasonable interest this year, but I suggest that departmental societies should advertise City & Guilds and their events first, before we do anything drastic, and lose our heritage!!

Completely unrelated but at least we aren't at LSE.

http://education.guardian.co.uk/students/news/story/0,12891,1658281,00.html?gusrc=ticker-103704

'Traitors' - I am the Fellowship of the Guilds.

I look forward to seeing someone walking towards me with Spanner. Perhaps you might want to reveal yourself since you are hiding behind some alias? Are you really that scared?

Maybe its time we stopped talking about our history and traditions - how many have survived? Very few.

If we are to make sufficient impact on future generations of engineers, changes are necessary.

Patel,

You are not welcome here. Go back to Gower street.

> Maybe its time we stopped talking

> about our history and traditions

> - how many have survived? Very few.

Which is precisely the problem - and why we should hold on to what we have left.

Perhaps, people should stop being so offensive.. the day will come for every single one of us to move on, and leave Imperial but it doesn't mean that we can dney being a part of it, nor perhaps, for some wanting to still contribute. So please stop offending others.. because you too will one day leave..

Here I am in Australia being horrified at the so-called "need" to change the name.

I was Guilds President in 1964-65 and I have observed the recent destruction of College history, in the interest of "progress" including the debacle of cutting science into two, then trying to repair that

Entities at Oxbridge are proud that the names of their colleges go back hundreds of years

No way is there a need to tinker with a lineage that is not yet 120 years young.

CNG = Compressed Natural Gas for those who have been to Delhi recently. Almost all the public transport vehicles here run on it, it's totally clean and pretty awesome, time that TfL learnt about it and used it on mass scale rather than on a few token buses!

If only Someone would design a decent lubricant so that Buses would only need energy when travelling uphill or accelerating ... where is Dr Lube when you need him ...

Hehe: http://www.imperial.ac.uk/P726.htm

I always knew medics were a bit 'faulty'

Sam, we have already got zero friction bearings, but releasing that knowledge will put the lube ppl and lube makers out of business, so we won't reveal the secrets just as yet, ha!