My comments on the diagram:

* The table layout looks remarkably like dBs currently does during the day.

* Will the doors on to the quad be usable, or just fireworks?

* Where will the food be served from? There are seats along the whole length of the current bar & catering area

Ooops. I meant "fire exits", not "fireworks"

I look forward to seeing some planning applications for the new lift room housing...

The idea is that the doors will be used and open during the summer to allow a better flow between the quad and the bar.

I think the area with seats facing the wall is the new bar area (left of the diagram in the middle). The eventual plan is to re-arrange the bar area and servery to provide a combined bar/servery, with a large shared (between dBs and da Vincis) kitchen area behind.

Looks like Harringtons but green instead of red... Oh well

I'm disappointed to see that the walls and ceiling of the artist's impression are still that dreary s**t brown colour that pervades the entirety of daV's at the moment. Of course removing the raised bit and opening the windows into doors will be a vast improvement on the current (light level) situation, but don't we want a lighter, more accessible cafe space? dBs will continue to have black walls, I'm sure and the Union bar will retain its trad feel, minus the smog.

Glad to see that persistence at Trading and Retail Committees can have some influence three years down the line ;-)

Re: "I look forward to seeing some planning applications"

Despite repeated requests to more than one Sabb, no response *at all* has been received to the question "do we have planning permission for this yet?" I've been unable to find an appropriate planning application on the Westminster council website.

Is that for the entire redevelopment, or just Da Vinci's?

The entire redevelopment. An application might be there, but I can't find it...

so that very large, ugly pointless lift that will require half of the original Imperial staircase to be demolished.... we can appeal against the planning permission? Let's do it!

Call me an old fashioned student bum, but I thought we were building a union not a departure lounge. Why isn't there memorabilia and sports kits and old photos and all that c**p on the walls?

Yeah, what happened to all the stuff on the southside walls? It should be put up in Harrintons.

If someone in the Union had the brains to contact Archives, I'm sure they could dig out some old photos and c**p, and they could be hung in the new 'redeveloped' union

That's what the Union Bar is for. Plenty of old c**p to please even the most anal amoung you. Most studets couldn't give a flying fart about sports kit etc etc etc, so give them a bar which is an escape from all that.

But anyway, the table layout looks incredibly boring - and seems to replicated in all the bars (i.e. DBs, new spangly cafe upstairs and even the UDH) in the artists impressions.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the colour or the layout. It will be a while until the bars are refurbished properly and this is all bound to change.

The key features from the artists impression are:

• the raised area is gone
• the bar and servery will become a combined entity eventually
• moving the bar gains extra seating capacity at the Union-bar end

In reply to hmm, that ugly lift isn't quite as pointless as you seem to think, it is required for the union to comply with the Disability Discrimination Act (an act of law that the Union cannot ignore) and allow all students at Imperial to access the facilities in the Union regardless of any physical constraint that makes them unable to use the stairs, or are you suggesting we should discriminate against them?

Are there actually any of "them" at Imperial?

And what is on the top floor anyway? (NB The lower floor is accessible from Beit quad and the middle floor from the Albert Hall side

http://www.union.ic.ac.uk/meetings/files/paper2-21-37.pdf

http://www.union.ic.ac.uk/meetings/files/paper2-114-944.pdf

I believe a survey of the Union was conducted by a DDA expert a while back and that expert found that it would be possible to alter the existing lift in the union to make it DDA compliant.

ICU had the money to do become DDA compliant ages ago. The building scheme and fundraising that is currently being proposed was unnecessary for ICU to be able to comply with legislation. And if the sabbs had been *really* on the ball, they could have done this before the Act became enforceable and prevented running the risk of getting sued a la the Arcadia group.

If you are sad enough like me, you can study the DDA requirements for lifts.

The only area the current lift doesn't meet is the ability to turn around 360 degrees without hitting the sides. This is the argument being used for a new lift.

However, if you read the small print you will find that if your lift will fit a wheelchair (which the current one does), but you can't turn around in it, a mirror can be placed on the side opposite the door to allow compliance. This allows the wheelchair user to "see what is happening behind them" when they are not facing the door.

Whilst this may not be a perfect solution, it would save the cost of having a new lift, which cuts through what I consider to be a very nice symmetrical staircase... Back in 2003 the union was given money to do precisely this, and overhaul the current lift machinery.

Oh well – maybe spending all the union’s money on a great glass elevator will make the union run so much better…

so i say again, is it possbile to get them to change it?

Doubtful. The only way would be to object to the planning application as and when it appears. I guess when that goes in depends on when they intend to start external works.

I'd guess halting it at this phase would be horribly expensive as contractors have been appointed and the ball is very much rolling.

More expensive than building the new lift though?

As I understand it the lift has been ordered. So yes, probably more expensive than building the new lift (and then we'd have a lift just hanging around...)

Don't lifts always "hang around"</pedant>

don't suppose its has occurred to any of you who are immediately intent on seeing all the flaws in the design that the picture is simply the arcitecture. what goes on the walls be it lots of posters ala intrepid fox or bellusi's or crests and "aquired singage ala rsm or horrible art deco designs will be the next stage of design.

and god forbid that the chairs be moved when the catering outlet is in use.

oh and i can see how the knackered round tables in dbs at lunch are similar to the wooden rectangles in the centre of the floor on the picture

dBs normally has round tables around the outside (as in the picture)

dBs also has rectangular ones on the 'dancefloor' at lunchtime (again, as in the picture)

Everyone seems to have forgotten that the furniture in dbs moves more often than I have hot dinners, and all the tables in the pictures appear to be movable, so I wouldn't be surprised if they could be rearranged any which way.

Secondly, I was under the impression that the students - especially the sports teams - LIKED big rectangular tables as you can fit more alcoholics around one for drinking games....

Thirdly, tom, the walls in dv's are salmon pink and db's are blue. not s**t brown and black.

Thankyou for your time

This is all part of an evil secret plan by a closed sect within the Catholic Church. They want nobody to know any of the goings on in DaVincis. They will probably censor this message or at least the important parts. There is a secret chamber in DBs where is buried the scroll that gives the true story of christianity. To find it go into Davinicis and go to ...............................................................................................................

you will know what i mean when you get there.

Beware of the albino he is the...................

little know to most the scrolls in dbs cellar were discovered many years ago in the reing of tasha newton, they detailed the descent of the last in the line of christ andy "healing hands" heaps, this was then kept from the student body to protect the family of christ the secret is now closely guarded by the green knights, stewards of the great secret....

....really did you think they were paid to simply stand around looking bored pn a wed and fri night