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Fewer State School Students for Imperial

Jul 04 2006 17:14

Ashley Brown

The College strategy document for 2006-2009 reveals that Imperial may take fewer students from state schools.

Chemistry at A-level is making way for Media Studies in state schools

Imperial has released its strategy document for 2006-2009, revealing the direction it plans to take over next few years.

The most interesting part of the document comes in the last few pages, dealing with student numbers. The total number of students is capped at current levels, however the make-up of the student body is expected to change.

Fewer state school students

The teaching of science at state schools is a concern for the College, with nearly half of A grades in A-level science subjects going to those studying at independent schools. The government is pushing top universities to increase their intake from the state sector, however the document states:

"The College will not lower its entrance standards so should the relative decline in science in state schools continue, an increase in the proportion of students from independent schools would be expected."

Imperial runs schemes to encourage science teaching at state schools, however believes that "responsibility must lie with government" to counter the declining numbers of 16-18 year olds taking science A-levels.

Top-up Fees

The issue of top-up fees rears its head again, with College seeking a lifting of the ?3,000 cap or an increase in grants, stating:

"Only if grant and fee meet the full cost of tuition can standards be maintained with UK students being taught in significant numbers."

With no change in funding expected in this parliament, international students will continue to increase in numbers and subsidise undergraduate teaching for their EU peers until at least 2009.

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Discussion about “Fewer State School Students for Imperial”

The comments below are unmoderated submissions by Live! readers. The Editor accepts no liability for their content, nor for any offence caused by them. Any complaints should be directed to the Editor.

1. Not a regular pedant

Jul 05 2006 12:02

*Fewer* state school students.

2. Sid

Jul 05 2006 13:38

I concur

3. Ashley Brown

Jul 05 2006 14:03

As do I...

4. Kate

Jul 05 2006 17:27

It's all very well saying that responsibility lies with the government to increase the number of state school kids taking science A-leves, but College are hardly doing their bit. Granted, there are schemes to encourage science teaching in state schools. However, calling for the cost of top-up fees to increase, as well as openly acknowledging the desire to decrease the proportion of home students, is hardly going to foster a positive image of College, or of university science in generally.

5. Lord Jenkins Esq.

Jul 06 2006 11:38

splendid news. you only have to go to the union on a wednesday evening to see that there's too much riffraff at Imperial.

6. Dan L

Jul 07 2006 11:44

Surely the college should take people who:

a) Want to go to Imperial.

b) Who meet the academic standard.

If someone is good enough they will get into Imperial.

7. Ashley Brown

Jul 07 2006 11:49

That's the point. People taking A Levels at state schools are taking media studies and not the sciences, meaning less meet the academic standard so numbers will fall.

However if there's a decision between taking an overseas student and taking a home student, the overseas one makes College money, the home one costs it quite a bit.

8. Dan L

Jul 07 2006 12:04

What subjects kids at school take is hardly Imperial's fault.

I blame the schools.

9. Ashley Brown

Jul 07 2006 12:28

And Imperial blames the government...

10. Overseas Student

Jul 08 2006 15:38

Actually, overseas students are given a higher entry requirement than home students, i.e. a student from Hong Kong will probably be expected to get 3 to 4 As at A Level, whilst we will take home students with 2 A's and 1 B. Funny that.

11. ...

Jul 08 2006 17:40

Does Imperial take home students with AAB? I though the standard offer in most departments was AAA

12. Ruth

Jul 08 2006 17:51

An offer is often a lot lower, mine was BBB - although my department does say that despite its low offers the average acheived is somewhere between AAB and AAA.

I think though that whilst the lack of state school pupils taking sciences (and doing well in them if they do take them) is a problem, the decreasing state school admissions are more to do with state school pupils simply not being able to afford to study in London (or their parents not being prepared to fund them to do so) and so not applying to Imperial in the first place.

From my school only 2 others went to London (both to do medicine) the others went to cheaper places to live or stayed athome.

13. Richard Parasram

Jul 21 2006 13:55

Firstly, Dan L you're quite clearly a knob. Anyway, who cares if they take lower numbers from state schools? Why does anyone important even keep track of that sort of thing? If you get the grades then you get in, if you can't, bugger off elsewhere. All this social engineering is ridiculous.

14. Steve J

Jul 21 2006 15:33

Firstly Richard, haven't you just called Dan a knob and the agreed with him. Maybe you're interpreting his meaning differently from me but...

Secondly the number of state school students matter because I for one don't want to live in a society where people with money get to do well and people without it get to sod off and work in McDonalds.

I do however think that the focus should be on the schools. State school students shouldn't get let in if they aren't as capable. But going to a state school shouldn't disadvantage someone who is perfectly capable of getting into a top university with the correct teaching

15. John Collins

Jul 22 2006 14:47

Steve J: Well said. Figures published this week show that, after Oxbridge, Imperial admits the lowest % of state school students compared to any other UK university. There are dozens of reasons that may explain why this is happening (e.g. home students are shunning science, science is poorly taught in state schools, tuition fees, etc) and reversing this trend will acquire addressing these issues, and many more. This is not going to be easy, but we should at least try.

16. Dan L

Jul 23 2006 00:31

Steve J thanks for pointing that out.

Indeed Richard has agreed with everything I have said, so I am slightly suprised at his comment, like you were.

Applicants school background should not be considered, Imperial should just take people who meet the standard. That is not to say Imperial should not promote Science and Technical subjects at schools....

17. Richard Parasram

Jul 26 2006 14:33

aagh... sorry about that. I think my rebuke was supposed to be directed in 'Lord Jenkins Esq's direction'!

But that aside, it had nothing to do with his view on the state school issue, merely his comments about 'riff-raff' at the union on Wednesday nights. I'm one of that rabble.

Steve J... I still disagree about the State school figures mattering but we essentially agree so we may as well agree to disagree.

And to the administrators.. The writer's names really ought to go to at bottom of their comment!! (In my humble opinion)

18. Editor

Jul 26 2006 15:28

Richard - we have a new version of Live! launching in a couple of weeks, which is in testing at the moment. It makes the relationship between message and name a bit clearer.

Anyone who wants to give it a try early should drop me an email.

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