Students on union committees should not be banned from working at any of the union-run businesses. HOWEVER, there should be specific regulations that they have limited access to information about the union business they are working in through their committee position, and should also not have a say or vote in matters concerning that union business.

It should be the onus of the committee to actively make sure that students with conflicts of interest be asked to abstain from taking part in matters at committees related to the union business they work in.

Of course the union staff are hesitant to employ committee members. The roles of boss/employee is effective blurred. It makes perfect economic sense for the union businesses not to employ students who are active in union governance.

What about employing those who merely attend the meetings to watch? They have no decision making powers...

I remeber when the staff used to be on Exec and Council, sabbs and mangers in the past used to find it useful to see everyones view it didnt matter what other positions that person had. However due to the 'Casual worker' contracts that union bar staff are under, the mangement dosen't have to give any reason for not giving any shifts to people so bar mangers are completely in their rights to offer no futher shifts to these people.

This does not mean that I agree with the desicion, yes it makes the SSP a little murky, but most students that are both staff members and commiette members aren't out to screw their mangers they just want to help the union to operate.

This latest action does appear to be union mangement throwing their toys out the pram, because they didnt get their own way. How very childish.

This is all getting a little silly now... not much unity in the union any more. At the current rate there might not be any viable commercial services left.

What we haven't been told is whether the problem is with the staff, or due to politicians interfering (which is more often the case).

I sympathise with the view that student staff shouldn't be able to vote on the future of their boss, but that requires tightening up some rules rather than stopping students working.

What should happen here is that the student officers form policy on the type of venue they want, then allow the staff to formulate ideas. What seems to be happening is officers saying "we don't know what to do, you sort it out", then going "nope, don't like it".

Whatever your views on whether student staff should be involved in policy decisions affecting their area of work, the point is that (AFAIK) this has not been done as a result of a fair and universal existing policy- it appears to have been decided for individual staff, after a particular meeting.

Regardless of your views on the actual rules on student staff, making rules up on the spot and enforcing them retrospectively is not good practice.

The sketchy information we've received indicates that this is a policy which will be applied in the future to all staff and has been applied retrospectively after Friday's meeting.

A policy that amounts to "Bar staff who want to keep working must not attend Council" being classed as the kind of operational decision that staff can take without political approval sounds highly dubious to me... It's basically applying a financial penalty for some of our membership to participate in democratic process. What if an officer election took place at the Council meeting? Could ICU be in trouble with the education act?

I hadn't thought of the education act angle on it, sounds like it could be a borderline case though.

"there should be specific regulations that they have limited access to information about the union business they are working in through their committee position, and should also not have a say or vote in matters concerning that union business"

Perhaps the problem is not information the causal staff gain through their committe positions, more the infomation they gain during bar work, through which ever member of the union is propping up the bar at the time...

would you expect a member of council to abstain from a decision such as the latest bar environmental policy or smoking ban within the union purely on the bases they work behind the bars?

Presumably this new 'policy' will now affect all members of council and exec who choose to work for the union's comercial services including bright green stewards, ents, catering and shop staff... not just bar staff.

so i have just been told i am fired by live!?

Ooops, this means when the Union Bar is short staffed, like several times this year, Sabs can't help run it? Or are we operating a double standard - like poor students who need employment aren't allowed to enact their rights laid down by the constitution?

Sabbs running the bar would effectively be senior staff to the managers, not subordinates.

Oh no! Who will prevent my tankard from being lost, misfiled or misplaced now that Kirsty has gone?

wait a minute aren't the Senior Manager observers at Exec? Should they be sacked too? Or does this policy on concern people who care about students and the union?

Hang on. Are we talking about having a students union that is run for students by students? What sort of crazy idea is that? Surely this is against student interests.

I'm sure Kirsty is not the only person behind the bar who knows how all the tankards are supposed to be arranged. Besides there is now a nice shiny book which has the updated list of tankards in it and where they are kept. This is the result of staff spending several hours puting them all into the proper Faculties and numerical orders. I am fairly certain that staff can count in order as long as they all get put back where they came from. I am sure your tankard will be in very safe hands. :D

Fired! "...from a cannon... into the sun!"

No, that is what will happen to the giant hot dog.

Your tankard will have disappeared very quickly, this is not the first time that this ordering has been done and it wouldnt be the last.

Trust me - the bar staff are not stupid enough to lose my tankard. I know where the live. :D Plus it is used so often it doesn't usually make it back to the shelf.

Are we allowed to do wagers over Live!

I only hope your confiedence is well placed, during Easter I was in the bar and an old boy (He left in 1965, I later found out, and was back for a conference) asked for his Tankard that he had used the day before and it had dissappeared I dont know if this was pre or post "re-arrange", but still they are quite large and really shouldn't go missing.

I can almost guarantee that the tankard would probably not have been put back yet and would have been sat with the Chaps pots next to the Goldschlager bottle.

The main problem being that the pots are not immediately washed out and replaced when the person returns it - essentially negating the need to put ID where the pot belongs. Staff are often too busy to search for pots and have a limited idea of what the various faculties and csc's actually are when they come to replace them at the end of the night. Either that or laziness. The frequently most mixed up shelves are SCC and AEB seeing as AEB tankards are listed under 'SCAB' (Social Cultural and Amusements board - later renamed Arts and Entertainments Board) and clearly this is far too confusing.

As per your wager - I would be very happy to take you up on this if only I didn't think the staff would then hide all my tankards as a joke.

Your comment brings up to things that concern me slightly:

1, Surely not cleaning tankards immediately, is not the best for health and safety, surely a quick clean takes a matter of seconds and the bar is never that busy that this is not possible (especially during Easter when fewer students are around).

2, As you mentioned in the post of 25 April there is now a book of where the Tankards are, but if no ID cards are taken surely this has been a waste of time as the when the Tankards are taken out there would be no way of knowing where the Tankard is, surely this is when most (not all I agree) go walkies.

If the Tankards are cleaned quickly and then placed in the correct place then surely both of the above can be addressed.

As for the wager, it appears your faith in the bar staff is not as high as it first appeared.

1. Absolutely. But with the tankards not allowed to go in the glasswasher they tend to get left in the sink until the end of the night. I didn't necessarily say I agreed with this arrangment. Purely that it happens.

2. Bar staff should always take ID in return for a tankard. They should also check that the person who's ID they have taken is allowed to take the tankard. However, they should not take Swipe Cards as this is a breach of security, allowing the holder of the card access to areas of the college they may not usually be able to access. My problem is not that there is no need for taking ID - just what is the point in marking the space on the shelf if when you then return the ID (in exchange for the tankard) you don't put the tankard back where the ID has come from...

I have every faith in the bar staff playing practical jokes. Particularly when it comes to me asking for my tankard or me losing a wager. :D

'Surely not cleaning tankards immediately, is not the best for health and safety, surely a quick clean takes a matter of seconds and the bar is never that busy that this is not possible'

hehe you are absolutely CLUELESS.

It's been 48 hours since this published and nothing more from the ICU President or the staff? Surely this could've been knocked on the head straightaway by JC going: "Er, no"?

this is a disgrace. the manager is clearly on some sort of power trip and icu should sort it quickly

The problem with "check(ing) that the person who's ID they have taken is allowed to take the tankard" is that people's names don't go on them until the END of the year.

Yes James.

That is why CSC Chairs such as Mark and Maggie provided nice laminated lists at the beginning of the academic year with all the present tankard holders names on...

... which was fine until the bar lost them.