There are nine engineering departments, aren't there?

Why is there so much hostility towards the RSM? All members of the RSM are also in C&G so why shouldn't they go to the bar night?

Well they can, but what they shouldnt do, as I heard, is abuse it and get in for free when, like all non-freshers, they should pay

I thought that everyone who had a wristband was entitled to get it for free? Which was why the RSM were handing out wristbands to any of their students that wanted one. I'm sure that there were plenty of C&G and RCS non-freshers who did the same thing.

There wasn't that much 'free' beer anyway, I arrived at 8 and it had completely run out. Even people who arrived at 7-7.30 only got one or two pints.

Quite correct, and if "observer"'s rebuttle is going to be something about freshers and wristbands, then i count with .. well you shouldn't go about leaving lovely shiny wristbands about should you...

You are not the only people who are allowed to swipe things...

at least we know which Mascot is legally allowed to be stolen.. but i understand your puney arms aren't strong enough to carry the legitmate mascot...

Much RSM love

a) you didnt even know yourself which mascot was violate, well your president didnt, so we stole both and gave the unviolate one back

b) essentially stealing tickets to event for free entry is out of order, how is it supposed to be sustainable if everyone gets in for free

c) no only rsm stole the wristbands

So the RSM 'stole' the wristbands that the C&G were meant to be giving out for free? Why were they being hoarded in the first place?

If C&G want to make their events sustainable then they shouldn't be giving out so many 'tickets' which let you in for free, even without the RSM taking wristbands loads of people had multiple bands which they were giving out to their friends.

The wristbands were free to all first years as a promotion with the sponsor. People who are not freshers but attend Guilds events get a wristband with the entry fee, i.e. free entry to further wristband events that year.

If everyone has wristbands the events couldn't be run because they would operate a huge loss.

But then you are defending stealing event tickets essentially, that says quite a lot about you.

Technically, the miners are part of C&G and therefore their freshers are entitled to free entry. Besides several Live! reporters claimed that the RSM came out in force to the bar nights and their articles imply that the events were successful. It seems also that many of “the true engineering fresher” did not come to your bar nights etc. I find it unlikely that you made a significant loss.

Remember these bar nights are about the only thing that RSM gets from the Engineering Union it would be a shame if they were barred from them (no pun intended). Insider, if you are a member of the engineering exec then could you please clarify your comments. Are you suggesting that the engineering exec do not want the RSM within their faculty union? If so where do you believe the RSM should go?

Let me remind you these are just questions my intent is not to offend you. Have a nice day!

These wrist bandy thingys seem to operate in much the same way as tickets.

As Guilds (president and treasurer) have attended Finance training and signed a form confirming attendance. They will recall being told that tickets and such should be kept (like money) secure in a safe, in accordance with Union finance proceedure. We can assume that this was dilligently done by Guilds, leaving RSM or indeed any other unauthorised member of the Union no opportunity to steal said wristbands.

'RSM' couldn't have stolen the wristbands and any accusations would have to be substantiated.

PS most guilds events make a loss nowadays don't they?

"The wristbands were free to all first years as a promotion with the sponsor. People who are not freshers but attend Guilds events get a wristband with the entry fee, i.e. free entry to further wristband events that year."

The wristbands were not purely free for first years. As I understand it the wristbands were also free to 'friends' of the C&G President. I was offered one twice and declined. I subsequently paid for entry to the bar night, acquiring my wristband legitimatly for future Guilds events, and was disappointed to see one of my fellow RSM students removed from the bar and deprived of her wristband by the C&G President.

If the RSM students had been allowed into the bar then presumably the staff on the door had decided that the wristband was either legitimate or they had paid entry and received a wristband. This is regardless of whether any had been stolen as a judgement call had already been made when entry was granted. If there was any suspicion then this should have been clarified before admitting people to the bar night.

What authority does the President have to give out and take away wristbands as and when he chooses?

"Are you suggesting that the engineering exec do not want the RSM within their faculty union? If so where do you believe the RSM should go?"

I think people need to remember some points of clarity here; "RSM" as it stands within ICU is a CSC (ie on a level field with ACC, A+E, RCC, Media etc.)

You do not have "RSM students", you have students who are members of a club/soc which is a part of the RSM CSC.

What I expect the "Engineering exec" would like, and probably have done for several years is for students from all sections of the Engineering faculty to be able to come together for events organised for their faculty, regardless of what faculty/ Constituent College etc that their department used to belong to in a by-gone historical time.

[Prepares to get flamed for bringing up that horrible thing called "Truthful facts"

ICSM, C&G, RCSU are Faculty unions.

A+E, ACC, RCC, Media and <b>RSM</b> are Clubs committees.

I still believe the sooner some people came to terms with this the better the FUs would be able to cater to and support everyone they are meant to.]

The RSM has existed for over 150 years. It is the oldest part of Imperial!!!!

As an RSM student I firmly belive I am part of the RSM Union., NOT CGCU! I frankly couldn't give a toss as to what ICU call us.

At the end of the day the RSM Exec organise fantastic events every year, and due to the lack of funding from ICU, RSM Union obtain a hell of a lot sponsorphip throughout the year from the world's largest mining and petroleum companies.

The RSM Union have organised more successful events this term than both C&G and RCS.

For example.... we have had 2 formal dinners this term, both of which had approx 150 attendees. Whereas C&G had a poorly attended atumn ball and RCS hav failed to hold one.

I disagree with the last statement 'RCS failed to hold one' they chose to hold an alternative event which proved to be very successful. I believe that the RCSU have done an extremely good job on all fronts this year.

Essentially RSM are looking for recognition that although they no longer exist as a faculty at Imperial, they are not in any way similar to the RCC, SCC, etc in terms of the work the officers do, or the objectives of the organisations.

I don't understand why this is such a contentious issue, surely it will only improve relations with all concerned if RSM students are happy with their place in the Union?

"they are not in any way similar to the RCC, SCC, etc in terms of the work the officers do, or the objectives of the organisations"

My interpretation of their own personal propaganda machine disagrees with that;

It states the RSM exists for:;

* The furthering of the interests of the members and the status of the RSM; (the role of all CSCs is to represent its members interests)

* The promotion of sport within the RSM; (the role of the ACC and certain parts of SCC)

* The promotion of interest in all aspects of geology and materials science; (Again similar to the role of SCC / A+E with regard to their clubs subjects and interests)

* The promotion of social intercourse among its members. (The role of clubs in general)

"I don't understand why this is such a contentious issue, surely it will only improve relations with all concerned if RSM students are happy with their place in the Union?"

I'm going to put forward a foreign concept, integration. If everyone accepted that things change over time and sometimes that moving forward to find a common ground is the best solution fr everyone, instead of one group of people dedicating their time to 'corrupting' new students into believing that the old ways are the only way and they have been hard done by, who then in turn "corrupt" the following year and no progress is ever made.

I am not saying that the RSM should be completely removed I am just saying that if people were more honest about what it is and what it isn't then alot of the unnecessary animosity and bickering could be dropped and progress could be made on all sides by engineering students being better served.

With all due respect C@P how does CGCU’s, Medics or the RCSU’s “propaganda material” differ from RSM.

1) All FU exist to further the interests of their members – the main FU’s do this through academic/welfare support – RSM do this very effectively given the situation with their FU, I have heard that the RSM president argued valiantly at council for the education of Mining students.

2) All of the FU promote sport to some degree thus all of them have sports officers – RSM also has a sports officer position. Whilst the ACC does promote sport it’s fair to say the RSM teams are closer to the medic/engineers teams.

3) CGCU promote engineering, the Medics union promotes Medicine, the RCSU promote science – RSM promotes mining and the subjects surrounding it.

4) The promotion of social intercourse – well let’s think – the C&G fresher’s ball, the RCSU fresher ball and I am sure that the medics have had a string of high profile event s – RSM had its traditional ball. On the other hand the ACC, RCC, SCC did not have these events because it is not in their remit.

RSM is closer to a faculty union than you seem to care to admit. Whilst I agree that integration may provide a solution I equally believe separation could provide a solution. Whatever the case CGCU haven’t made it easy for RSM.

Happy Christmas all!