"In terms of feedback to us, it doesn't make any difference."

Definitive proof that Universities don't care about whether their students are actually satisfied or not. I've suspected this here as well, but at least we're not asked to rig the survey (except on the Live! boards... you guys have no ethics when it comes to 'employability')

Absolutely disgraceful

Paraphrased:' give us feedback on those sheets where you can be as nasty as you want, but the NSS is *not* the place to do so.'

I was feeling somewhat sympathetic to the female lecturer before I heard that final comment.

It's clear that this lecturer (female voice) is telling it how it is, i.e. you rate your uni badly, it doesn't look good. However, in doing so, she is putting undue pressure on her students. If their degrees are as "good" as the lecturer makes out, one hopes the students will privately/publically tell her to go to hell.

Undue pressure however, which is really the crux of this issue, must not be allowed and in the case of NSS should be investigated. Something similar happened at another university, not to do with their lecturers, but it was dealt with internally.

The NSS IS the RIGHT place to put down your dissatisfaction. If your experience, and particularly feedback, was awful, then you are at liberty, even expected to say so.

I hope others pick up on this article by Live! Good work.

p.s. really want to know who recorded that conversation!!

"You are competing with a lot of students who als want their university to look good."

"This is what everyone else is doing."

Oh no, hang on. I forgot that there are a few morons at Imperial College who don't get it and criticize the s**t out of their university. But when it comes down to the internal ratings they give sunshine marks to even their worst lecturers on SOLE (check the sole results on the registry website if you don believe me).

That's because only suck ups and tards do SOLE. The results are biased.

The NSS get results saying 'IC sucks' because they pester people at inappropriate times (i.e. during exams) as so that survey is biased the other way.

Shame it hits us in the league tables, but why care about an arbitrary measure of quality anyway?

That woman is from the facult of arts social sciences I recognise her voice. She is not a lecturer she works in the faculty of arts and social sciences administrative service. Kingston university is like a police state at times, they have suspended people for criticising the university (which I think is illegal) but that is the problem of a market education universities become businesses and the NSS becomes its marketing.

OMG!? Who knew??

Bastards!

but seriously, typically british.

good job.

Thanks for posting this story. It's important that the veil is lifted on the truth about the National Student Survey, and especially about the way it is implemented at certain institutions.

I would especially take issue with the assertion that employers consider an institutions NSS rating when making hiring decisions. Employers know what good universities are based on their overall reputation, and more importantly, on the bases of how well their graduates perform on the job in the real world. No amount of survey spinning can hide poor graduate performance. Full stop.

Mathew Roberts exposed the woman on the sound recording as an administrator not a lecturer. This would indicate that we do not have some kind of rogue individual here, but someone who was delivering a presentation of misinformation in a highly manipulative ,frightening and threatening manner in order bully students into saying they were more satisfied then they actually were.

The NSS rating of a candidates university could not logically be what employers consider to be the most, or even an important factor in making a hiring decision. Why would an employer care whether a prospective employee came from an institution where students were happy with their own experience?

It seems to me that new students and parents will be looking at the NSS, don't they deserve an accurate picture not a false one that was created through intimidation?

Doesn't take long to type "Kingston University" into Wikipedia and read the second line "Formerly a polytechnic..." and you're done. Who needs league tables?

This is a disgrace. Thanks for exposing this lack of leadership and lack of integrity. Buyer Beware!

What is worrying for me (as a student of Kingston University) is that the university lacks so much confidence in its degrees itself that it is reliant on the NSS to boost its league table performance. I am studing a half-field subject at Kingston ( And half-fields in two subjects that have a bad image problem - Film and Media) . I found film to be very academically stimulating whereas media studies was at times designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator and as a result when/if I am in a position to interview/employ graduates if a Kingston University student presented themselves to me in an interview I would take a film graduate bbecause I know from my experiance at Kingston film was taught well Whereas, I wouldnt take a Media graduate at Kingston because when I was there the course was taught badly (There was one example where I knew more than the lecturer, on key parts of the course)

I have been quite vocally critical of Kingston University and from my experiance of Kingston University the three areas that have attempted to keep me quiet about this have been;

Kingston University Students Union

Staff who teach media, cultural studies

Administrative staff in the Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences.

Boith KUSU and Media, Cultural studies staff should support my freedom to crticise the university, If the fundamental right of freedom of speech didn't exist neither KUSU or a job in the media which I am supposedly doing my Media, Cultural Studies Degree for would exist.

I got banned from a KUSU society for telling a perspective student that there was not enough room in Halls of Residence for all first years and complaining that the way the university handled a situation on my course was innappropriate ffs.

I also got suspended from my course (for two weeks) for not giving my term time address mysteriously after I criticised the university on facebook...

to me that shows that KUSU is not confident enough in the quality of the university that it is supposed to be representing the students of. That it doesnt tolerate any criticism of it.

The media studies lecturers dont tolerate much criticism either whereas the film studies lecturers do. Perhaps this is to do with the confidence they have in their teaching.

Shock! Horror! Students are being given strategies for fiddling the survey results. Of course they are - by staff who know only too well that their days are numbered.

There are about 50% more University places than the system actually needs. Does Matt Roberts actually think he will seriously get a job in Film and/or Media at the end of his course of studies? Get real matey and get out nto the real world.

Note that the original information was retrieved from http://www.sirpeterscott.com/ -- WARNING, THIS MAY MAKE YOUR BROWSER GRIND TO A HALT.

Check out the comments on the BBC coverage of this story, they make interesting reading.

Here's an idea:

Put an NSS nag message on the backdrop of all your computers, and a dialog box that pops up every time a student logs in, until the student gives in and clicks the NSS link..

Sorry? We already did that?

Live! is now an official source of news for BBC journos - I like!

Credit has to go to the person who had the initiative to make the recording.

Absolutely - and to the protest website linked above. We just took the recording and make an article out of it, then put it out to the national news services.

Well done Live!! This should lead to another award!!

The Business School Dean at Bournemouth Uni does on behalf of all his staff and thinks its PR: http://business.bournemouth.ac.uk/about/replies.html#3

I have been reading the articles and comments surrounding this incident as a Kingston University student who was in this particular lecture. Even though I may not agree with how the NSS subject was tackled, I would like to state that the quality of teaching from both the lecturers involved has been consistently at a high standard throughout my degree. Both the staff mentioned are incredibly helpful, approachable and knowledgeable and I feel the majority of students would feel this way. It is a shame that the subject of the NSS was dealt in this way as I believe that most universities are encouraged to vote positively. Maybe this just highlights a weakness with how our degrees and universities are evaluated. After all most constituencies like universities and the NHS (to name a few) know that it is all about hitting targets.

Daily Mail, taken verbatim from a PA release:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=566200&in_page_id=1770

The Times, also from the PA release, but doesn't cite its sources:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3924417.ece

The problem with universities is that they are not monitored like schools and colleges. Therefore, a first class degree from one university could be marked as a pass from another university. Overall standards have dropped significantly over the past 10 years as a result of the government's ambition increasing university funding by increasing student numbers. UK higher education is a bit of a joke these days.

http://rachelthomascardiff.blogspot.com/2008/05/national-student-survey-pressured-to-be.html

As a lecturer in a Russell Group university, where I can emphatically state that we don't do ANYTHING like this, it makes my blood boil. We've been under huge pressure over the last year because of what our senior management perceive to be a relatively poor NSS rating, especially in relation to feedback (which is cited specifically in this recording). I also feel that the NSS is in many ways fundamentally unfair: I'm afraid it's only human nature that people more motivated to fill out one of these forms if they got something to complain about and less so if they don't have any problems. So many of the satisfied customers simply don't submit an entry at all.

So, we've been honest and aired our dirty laundry in public. Being honest with myself, there have been instances (usually due to overwork, administrative duties, staff illness etc.), when the time taken to return feedback on summative assessments has been too long. But, thanks to these unscrupulous individuals at Kingston trying to bully their students into submit NSS entries which may not reflect their true feelings about the place, we've probably been made to look worse, comparatively speaking, than we actually are.

I think the Russell Group should take a lead and take a collective decision that its member institutions should boycott the NSS until there is some sort of system in place which at least reduces the chances of this happening again. What this recording shows is that in its current form, it has the potential to hide institutional failings in some universities and exaggerate them in others.

All kudos to the students who made and published this recording.

I am one of the over 100 3rd year Psychology students who attended that lecture a couple of months ago. Dr Fiona Barlow Brown is indeed a lecturer, actually module leader for some modules. My hat off for whoever thought of recording this. We also have other Psychology lecturers who they are trying to get rid of because of their views regarding the university and the higher education system in general. The Social Psychology lecturers are brilliant and encouraged us to complain so there is some good at KU.

Leo's Russel Group of universities has access to two-thirds of universities' research grant and contract funding in the United Kingdom. Therefore, if his university has something to worry about, then it in fact SHOULD be magnified to take into account its privileged financial position compared to less well funded institutions.

Why should a university which gets more research funding be artificially penalised in teaching rankings by the immoral and unethical behaviour of the non-research universities? Research money is for research.

Perhaps if academic staff outside the Russell Group had better ethics they would get more research money? Apparently ethics are missing in many of these universities.

Kingston University said they took action as soon as they knew what happened, but students complained to VC of the Uni before going public. I guess he did not know there was a recording.

Matthew Roberts is a boob.

Matthew Roberts is not alone. His experience at Kingston tallies with others. Kingston University tries to silence criticisms. The student union is c**p. And the Uni does spy on your facebook for criticisms.

Fight back. It is our education they are stealling.

Spying on your facebook? for christ sake grow up, people have better things to do with their time.

Yes ,spying on facebook, anon who posted response 32 wouldknow that spying on facecbook is widespread with employers.

Kingston University staff "do not have better things to do with their time than check out websites that worry them because they expose wrong doing , multiple times during the day. There is even one obsessed character who does so first thing in the morning on an almost daily basis. I have their IP adresses!

Check out the latest song about the Student Survey:

www.sirpeterscott.com/sounds/fiona.mp3

Anon: 'Matthew Roberts is a boob'

[Sarcasm] Wow students from a russell group university are certainly educated judging by this comment [/sarcasm] perhaps you would like to name yourself, I have. my guess is your a member of KU Staff and p***ed off for expressing my genuine resentment at the uni

quote 2: 'Spying on your facebook? for christ sake grow up, people have better things to do with their time.'

Well what proof do you want I can give it all the MSN log saying that I am going to get suspended for criticising the uni , or the official letter saying that I got suspended for not giving my term time address your choice?

Re FormerMediaMan. I have done a course that has varied from foriegn languages, law, english literature to Economics I chose the course that interested me and yes wanted a job in film ( I actually wanted to be a film critic, now I want to be a lecturer of film studies) and yes I know that area is very difficult to get into but I chose the subject because I was academically stimulated by it. the A levels that I did where history (US Civil Rights movement and British transition into democracy- found irrelevent and US civil rights was covered by an english literature module that I did for civil rights) Psychology (again covered in a module on Audience effects) ICT (I am now a qualified flash developer thanks to MCS) and media studies which I am studying now. (I also did AS RE which tied in strongly to the module that I studied in first year on the history of the Mass Media) perhaps you would like to say the wonderful degree you studied 'FormerMediaMan' as it clearly helped you in the media industry so much, I might learn from you(!)

its good to see that you're studyin an englsih module has payed off.

How is it that people studying Engineering have a better standard of english than someone who has studied English at University?

Is your post deargodwhathappenedtothepunctuation a vain attempt at sarcasm?

Yeah the punctuation is bad in my post and I do have a bit of a problem with it (Actually very big problem) in that while I recognise where punctuation needs to go I cannot actually 'see' where it needs to go. I would freely admit that although even by my standards my original post is bad. Being at The Mill and then writing that in a semi-angry drunken state probably didn't help :P. Just so you know in future 'deargodwhathappenedtothepunctuation' sarcasm in printed text is marked with (!).

This provides a way of distinguishing between the tone of the thread because when I originally read;

'Its good to see that you're studyin an englsih module has payed off.'

It was very difficult to tell whether the punctuation/spelling problems in this section are intensional or not.

I am a ku student and i kno how corrupt this university is they r so blantant wit it! if that B**ch was not recorded, the student affairs dpt along wit the kusu would have buried any complaints.

ku get away wit not taking complaints seriously bcuz they kno dat 90% of da students are retards who r 2 lazy 2 fight 4 da rights!

I was in a situation where a fellow student witnessed a lecturer treating me unfairly, but she did not want to make a statement bcuz she did not want it to affect her degree or getting a reference for furture work.

'treating me unfairly' - If your standard of writing is anything to go by you deserve boiling in a vat of acid, not fair treatment!

Hey 39 Hmm...

Which department in Kingston University do you lecture in?...or are you just paid to monitor the internet?!

A nice timely piece of reporting by the Guardian: http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/news/story/0,,2284921,00.html

HEFCE has now sanctioned KU by removing the Psychology Department from the League Tables.

Chickens DO come home to roost every now and then.