And, since ICSM Rag have raised over half the total amount, how is that attributable to Miss Arney's hard work hey?

I think that some others might deserve a bit of a mention to be fair.

Not that I am bitter or anything.

1) IC students are apathetic when it comes to Union stuff. In general Medics aren't (attendance at bops etc, everyone gets involved - if you want to get anywhere in medicine you have to know lots of people!)

2) IC medics raise about the same amount every year and so this year is no different from the last 4 I've seen (less a fraction in fact). They get dressed up in greens and traipse around london for a day during a) a london invasion and b) a circle line pub crawl every year. People notice medics dressed in greens. etc etc etc.

3) IC RAG total this year probably outdoes the last three added up. That comes solely from Helen's hard work and organisation (including organising other people.)

I rest my case!

(Exits triumphantly to Battlestar Galactica theme tune.)

Hi Munkey,

I'm sorry, did I miss something?

Exactly which bit of all of those students' bloody hard work for charity are you bitter about?

Perhaps I could ellucidate: the prob is not that stuff happened and raised an undoubtedly impressive amount of lucre, but that the wrong people are getting the credit:

For starters, ICSM rag is not ICU rag though co-operation and crosstalk between the two has been marginally more productive this year than in years previous.

Secondly, given this, the most obvious gaffe in reporting, how can we know who else isn't being mentioned? I think we should be told.

I would think that the fact that the sums are listed alongside the people who raised them would be ample indication of who should "get the credit" for money raised. I'm a bit depressed that it seems to come down to such an egotistical contest though.

So much for charity work being self-less, eh?

We have this same discussion every year: The total amount raised by IC students being quoted as, or at least mixed up with, the ICU RAG total. Although if you actually read just the original article, it does actually avoid doing this. I think this is first time I've seen an article like this getting it right - Well Done Mustafa!

It is clear that Helen has done a good job this year, and I don't want to take anything away from the hard work that she and the rest of the ICU RAG committee have put, and the money thay have raised for worthy cousres. Knowing the grand total for all IC is an intersting statistic. But the point is that when there is an organisation called ICU RAG (ie the committee) that any figures quoted as the ICU RAG total should reflect the money raised by events that they have actually organised. I realise that Helen does do some work to help out other groups that run events, but I believe that in the most part, the other groups do about 99% of the work themselves, so it is they that should get the credit.

It would therefore be fairer to compare year on year the total raised by events organised by the RAG committee. How much is that for this year? From the list I'm guessing that it's RAG week, sports day, and world aids day - a total of £13,000. This is still an impressive total, no doubt. But it is still less than Islamic society raised, and don't even mention the medics.

Please don't take this personally, Helen. Well done, but I'm just trying to be fair to *everyone*, including previous RAG chairs.

Okay boyz n gals let's just chill a mo.

The breakdown of where the total's come from is given. Isn't that credit to the relevant people? No names mentioned, true. But anyone, and I mean anyone, who is in the union on a regular basis will know all too well that come rain, sleet or shine, Helen will be there in her office working away or at meetings representing RAG, often till the small hours of the morning. I think the article, whilst written around how much money has been raised and who by, was intended to be more of a reflection of how different Helen has been from previous years' RAG chairs in terms of the extra effort that she has put in - something that deserves to be and should be rewarded. So stop with the whingeing and let Helen have a bit of praise for five mins for what has been a tough year for her. Did any of you put in the hours towards RAG in the same way? I think not - like I say, if you're in the quad regularly you'll know what I'm talking about.

I've a feeling someone might have missed the point: the point I was making was more about the reporting than the ragging.

I doubt that the people involved closely in RAG give a monkeys whether they are credited individually or not. Also I agree with the tone of comments above and the original article: Helen did a marvellous job. However, anyone who has worked with RAG over the last couple of years will know that (as Starbucks hinted) this year has been v different, with Helen putting the emphasis strongly on enabling other groups "outside" (for want of a better term) rag to raise money under the rag umbrella. Whilst the title of the above article, citing the "IC Charity Tally" rather than "RAG Total" reflects this approach, I don't think the text does. Some may consider this picky but I think it's a shame that the author has missed the point about what made RAG better this year.

Well, I don't really care who raised the money - all that matters is that some great causes are now nearly 100,000 pounds better off and since we are all from IC (Last I heard the ICSM (Where I am a student) still had the IC bit before the SM bit), maybe we should all just collectively feel proud of our achievements, instead of bickering over "We raised more than you, nah nah nah!"

You did us proud Helen....nice one sweetie!!

John-Joe

xx

Geesh people, get a life!

You're all being a little too pedantic - which i suppose is par for the course at Imperial.

Let me summarise the good news in a way you will all understand:

"IC Students raised £100k for charity."

Now to be honest i don't give a rats ass which group you were affiliated to, or why you raised the money - at least you got off your fat asses and did something for those less fortunate - congratulate yourselves for that, don't recriminate over how much money was raised by who.

I'll give you a little heads up too. I'd be willing to bet that the charities you all donated to were more grateful for the money, and didn't care who or what you were. Money's what they need guys, and i see it as our job as good citizens and healthy members of society to give it to them. Think how much money you waste a year, think how many people there are like you in the world, multiply those numbers together and think about all the good things you can do with it.

Now stop all this pedantry crap and grow the f**k up.

Since the medic students have demonstrated year upon year how effective they are at raising large sums of money for charity, perhaps they could offer ICU RAG the benefit of their expertise so that a combined, cooperative operation managed and coordinated by the medics might generate even larger sums.

This seems such an obvious idea that I am forced to ask those who know better why this is not happening.

Sunil, see my above comment. I may not be a source close to IC rag but even I've noticed a different way of working this year: much more inclusive all round and I'm sure if ICSMSU saw any advantage at all to getting the IC rag badge on their fundraising stuff, it would happen. That's not to denegrate raggers, just to observe that the people running the ICSMSU stuff probably don't see that they'd get much out of it.

PS - JohnJoe, if you're not interested in who rasied the money then why read the frigging article in the first place, let alone wade through all the crap we're writing about it?

It wouldn't help ICSMSU raise more. It would help ICU RAG raise more. But more importantly, it help the total be higher. As mentioned above, IC students are very apethetic, on the whole. However, there are a lot more of them outside medicine). If the rest of the IC students were as motivated about RAG as the medics, then think how much could be raised. Helen as made progress towards this this year, but plainly that is still very long way off. Perhaps collaboration between the medics and everyone else could motivate the rest of IC into it. Or perhaps it's just something about being a medic.

The reason I read through all the crap is that I raised nearly a grand for charity through IC,and was interested to see how much IC students raised in To be honest, and I don't care if anyone knows it was me who raised the money or not. The important thing is that the charity we raised it for now has the money.

I totally agree with Sam. Hit the nail on the head there.

Well done to everyone who raised money!

I can understand it if the medics do not want to get involved with one big ICU RAG. There is a long, established tradition of medics' RAG events - how many times have we all been accosted by medics from other London colleges in the Circle Line?

The primary aim of RAG is to maximise the money generated for the cause. The medics have a strategy that works; ICU RAG can surely adopt the same strategies - methods that are known to work. Adopt best practice, in other words.

I mean, they don't exactly perform open-heart surgery for charity; they don't do anything specifically medical in nature that the rest of us can't do. Or do they?

They do something which is unique to medical students. They act like medical students.

This is characterised in the most part by being loud, arrogant and annoying. People pay them to go away.

Unfortunately your typical IC student is more reserved.

I really wish all you people saying IC rag should adopt medic tactics had a clue. That won't work, because you are all sitting around here, discussing, analysing and retrospecting about it. If you sad sad people had actually been out on the streets in RAG week, i wouldn't mind. As it is, you are talking crap about something you've never even attempted to get involved in.

Umm,

that turned into a bit of a rant, and i do realise that some of the people who posted above did a lot. It's the rest of you that really need to go out and try and do that sort of thing yourself, before you are qualified to give the rest pf the sane world advice.

Too much ranting! move on people, move on!

incidentally i stewarded John Joe's charity extravaganza and i thought it was excellent. Fun, lively and for charity - what more could you want in a night out?

That's what charity shoudl be like - fun.

unfortunately this thread isn't fun any more, it's boring... move on people, move on!

Actually I personally did get involved in rag week and do hold the same views that the medics are far better at raising money for charity.

So seeing as I was bothered to get involved my opinion must surely count.

I don't think it is fair to count many of the above fundraising efforts as ICU rag. As ICU rag had little to do with many of them but have grabbed the opportunity to count it all in with their 'grand total'. I have big respect for anyone who raises money for charity and don't want to put anyone down, but surely if the medics can raise £55 000 in one week, £13 000 (ICU Rag) in one year isn't as great as what everybody thinks.

We really should be taking a leaf out of the medics book for next year, I mean there are many more non-medical students at IC after all.

Or maybe I'll join the medics for RAG week next year, it sounds much more fun after all.

Looking at a breakdown of the Medics' £55k (on their web site), the Circle line raised more than half of that.

Even if we only get a third the number of the students involved, that's still as much as the rest of ICU RAG.

Do I detect a great deal of anti-medic sentiment here or did you all just eat Camembert last night?

Must have been the Camembert... I get the impression a fair no. of medics have been joining in.

The shocking thing is that ICSM Rag only raised £55k...

We don't want to go to Mary's

We don't want to go to Guy's

They say the Royal Free

Is not the place to be

And Tommy's is a place for high-born ladies

UCH is very draughty,

Charing Cross is buried in the Strand (in the Strand!),

So if you want some treatment,

Some very special treatment,

The London is the best place in the land! (cor, blimey!)

I thought it was:

"UC is full of f*ing w*nkers"

Comments?

not-a-medic-2:

"I don't think it is fair to count many of the above fundraising efforts as ICU rag."

you're right, but then i don't believe the article, or Miss Arney ever did. You're completely missing the point, and probably haven't read the article or the Council report properly. They both clearly state who has raised what, and point out that the total is £100k across Imperial. Are you claiming that ICSM students and the like are not also at our (*beloved/hated) institition as well?

* delete where applicable

Beckett: Not in our version. Our version doesn't get abusive until the third verse, when it starts talking about the m*rg*r with QMP.

The most difficult act to follow of a RAG chair has traditionally been to fail your year in true glory!

just a quick update to the total, to give you some happy news about positive cash flows!

Medic Tom Scorer is busy raising cash for Whizz Kids by cycling across America. He's storming into the thousands of pounds, and he's hoping to raise at least 15 for the kids' mobility charity. He's still training and fundraising hard, good luck Tom!

IC student Nick Gazard has just let me know that a recent FunRunWalk for the British Heart Foundation has raised over £7,000 to help prevent the UK's biggest killer

And Richard Walker has been duly elected ICU RAG chair for 2002/2003. I trust that you'll continue to support him with all your good ideas and fundraising skills next year while I sun myself in Ecuador.

And Atul, you can ask that question again a week on Friday when the final reslts go up...

bye bye! Have a fun term everyone!

THE RAGGING AcT IS GOOD OR NOT