friday 13th. unlucky for some!

It's a great shame that the presidential candidates number only two with one being the incumbent. Last time an incumbent got reelected to a second term, there was all sorts of hoo-haa and mutterings of incompetence (not without grounds) and general malaise. However, if it weren't for the extensive 'old friends' network within C&GU, i mean ICU, there would, on balance, probably be zero people standing!

Glad to see so many people fighting it out for the DPE&W position. This is a true rarity that should be relished! with top-up fees practically a dead cert, and numbers of home students predicted to drop massively, I hope the candidates are not weak minded!

What about the electronic voting. I'm sure there was a scandal involving electronic opinion taking and our current president at some point or another...

Let the farce begin!

Interesting. I heard a rumour that you were standing for president Tom?

You can now see the candidate's manifestos online.

(Yes, yes, not quite perfect yet. I'm working on it...)

John, it's "candidates'". Unless there was only one candidate, in which case it would be "candidate's". ;-)

I think Ameet has slightly overused addition in his manifesto. Suffering a little from cut'n'paste as well...

No I haven't. For some reason both manifestoes are included, the 150 word one for Felix, and the 500 one for the web site.

Ameet's manifesto seems to be well written, inteeligent and addresses the issuses that affect students such as longer library opening hours (about time someone took up this!) welfare, transport and abolishing the draconian law that forces one to have a union card to join a society- which will make the union more accessible and inclusive!

Mustafa seems to be saying something like "well i've done sod all because i needed time to learn the jobe but if you give another year i might actually do something then."

It's time for a change, a fresh start and someone who has new ideas- I will be voting Bhakta this year...

Vast promises...little detail. Rather disconcerting. In the words of Friedrich Nietzsche, Ameet, "One must have a good memory to be able to keep the promises one makes."

vogue is it better to have many ideas some of which may not come into fruition as to oppse to have none.

Even ideals have details.

This is not to say the opposing canditate's manifesto provides any more promise.

amram:

1. Mustafa has been in negotations RE longer library opening hours. Check out the Presidents reports to the last few councils.

2. It would be a dumb idea to get rid of union card requirements. How would you verrify that clubs and societies were making their quota of memberships to justify their budget? The Audit trail would be blown out of the water, budgeting would cease to function and

the external auditors would have a fit.

3. I'm surprised you, of all people, would vote for Ameet given your various political prejudices. (This is in no way a slur on Ameet by the way)

I'm more interested in Mr eco. friendly t.tibbits. What an interesting president he would be? It's a real shame only two candidates are running from president this year. Though one must admit, the current president's manifesto is unusually weak.

What political prejudices?

A wise man one said that prejudice is simply a reasonable value judgement based on past experience!

wahey, bring on the 2nd term, election madness all round. Lets all vote New election, we can stretch the mayhem to the third term.

It's not my full manifesto. We were asked to produce two (one 500 word manifesto and one 150 word one for Felix).

I thought Elections Ctte told us they were going to put up the 150 word versions on the web but it was a little hazy. They seem to have put up mainly the 150 word manifestos though they seem to have put up both of Ameet's manifestos and made it looked mangled.

I'm sure its just a blip and it'll be sorted in due course.

amram:

And another wise man once said that the definition of a fanatic is "someone that can not change his mind and will not change the subject", which fits you quite well.

I sincerely hope that Darius is being ironic in his manifesto.

"There are stills too many typing mistakes and grammatical errors so there must be better proof-reading."

no commment.

Darius was an excellent Science editor! in fact he was one of the best science writers Felix has ever known. I will definitely be voting Nickbin !

I just think there have been far too many typing errors in Felix this year.

Iy doesn't matter ... as nothing's going to change majorly anyway.

"It would be a dumb idea to get rid of union card requirements. How would you verrify that clubs and societies were making their quota of memberships to justify their budget? The Audit trail would be blown out of the water, budgeting would cease to function and the external auditors would have a fit."

Sorry Seb. You're mistaken. I have suggested this policy because the union card requirement has had many negative results. Firstly, we are forcing our members to get a card to join a club or society when they don't necessarily need to. Secondly, it has resulted in lower membership for many clubs. Thirdly, it's meant more work for clubs and societies because they have to chase their members to get a union card.

There is an alternative, a system could be implemented were all that is needed is your swipe card. College has all the details needed by clubs and societies online and this can be linked to a CID number. There are data protection issues, but these can be overcome fairly easily. This system would allow us to do everything we can do with a union card (put administration online, track society memberships etc). The audit trail would still exist.

So there are two possibilities.

1) keep the union card requirement, but improve the availability and ease of take-up. There are benefits is to this, for example all costs are paid for by ULU

2) move to the system I have suggested which would satisfy external auditors.

Bear in mind, I am not stubbornly proposing the system. Whatever option is chosen, it must be beneficial in both the short-term and long-term. If this means we keep the current system (union card requirement) then fair enough. But the alternative could prove better.

Hmmm. Yes, I suppose that would work actually, in that everyone has a swipe card so you could maintain an audit trail.

I know a few societies were, possibly, "making up" members (no names) when the union card rules were not so heavily enforced.

But I wouldn't think it would be that easy to initally implement the system, and the DPA issues sound like a quagmire.

We have considered using the College swipe card.

In an ideal world we wouldn't need an extra card. Heck we could combine it with an LT Student Photocard too.

We do not live an ideal world. The College CID database is corrupt. Not everyone has a single CID. (I currently have three, at one point I had none...)

We've been trying to get access to Registry's information for years but they won't let us because their computer system won't allow them to give out controlled access. A new Registry computer system called "SAMS" is still a long way off before its fully implemented.

College swipe cards last for the full length of your course (or even longer than that in the case of some PhD students I know with generous supervisors...). If you leave your course after the first year but no-one can tell (without swiping) from your swipe card that it is no longer valid. So we would still need to issue you with something to prove your (full-time - where does it say that on your swipe card!) student status. (At some other Colleges they have a separate 'library card' that you have to reapply for every year in addition to your ID card, for this very reason. At IC we don't so the Union card is the only thing (apart from your registration slip) that proves you are a student.

We would also need to issue you with something to show that we have access to your details. Sure College have some of it but because you are not forced to fill out the form every year (unlike with a Union card) people generally don't. This might be fixed if the new Registry computer systems ever see the light of day as you will then be able to update them online. Even then we would still need to work on how to integrate College's system with our own so that we can have access to all the information we need (College don't keep all of it.)

When we looked at our handling of personal data over the summer we found it was a mess. Enforcing Union cards was the only way we could fix it in the short-term. The practicalities of systems integration mean its probably the most practical way in the medium to longer term too.

On top of that it was the only practical way we were going to get online voting - which is essential for allowing postgraduates on our 21 campuses, students on placements and medics on firms the opportunity to vote for the very first time. Requiring all club/society members to have a card helped increase penetration. Having had that penetration we have then been able to use the cards for a multitude purposes. They have also reinforced to students that the clubs/societies are part of the Union.

Its been 3 years since we last required students to have a Union card to vote or to join a club. (Incidentally dropping the requirement never increased club memberships or made more students vote - in fact it made less students vote since many medics couldn't...) It was always going to make life difficult the first year the system was re-instated. Next year we should be able to make the forms simpler, especially if we can get more information straight out of College. We now know that postal applications help those on smaller campuses and this is now in place. We have issuing at Wye. We've had issue days at Hammersmith and Charing Cross. But there's a limit to what we can do. If a student seriously cannot be bothered to get a card we have to ask whether the society really means that much to them and hence whether it's really worth funding. (We can make allowances for this year as people adjust to the system but in the long-term we need accountability.) Remember we give our societies about 3-4 times as much funding (per head) as most other students' unions our size. There's nothing wrong with that, provided it can be justified and we ensure we are making the best possible use of the money.

Were union cards issued at Silwood Park?

A wise man once told me this regarding the processes of the union....

"The permanent staff of the union provide the continuity year upon year. Whereas fresh sabbaticals are injected into the system each year providing the student input."

Hence it is quite essential that each year, former students (new sabbaticals) enter the offices of the union. The current president if re-elected will start his second term, having not been a student for one whole year. Like it or not he will be out of touch. No amount of mingling in the bar (see the president state of the union two weeks ago in Felix) can fix this. I believe this to be very worrying.

What is unfortunate is that there are a lack of candidates.

I found current president's manifesto to be quite weak, most of it making excuses. However I did take Arif's points about Union cards.

I would agree with "observers" point though.

In response to: "At IC we don't so the Union card is the only thing (apart from your registration slip) that proves you are a student."

Why can't we just use a a registration slip instead of a Union card then? As far as I can recall, the requirement for a Union card only became neccessary this year. So I assume the college seemed to manage perfectly well for the past 96 years!

A point that is conveniently forgotten is the arguably undemocratic "reforms" of this new system which mean that students are NOT ALLOWED to vote without a Union card and such cards can not be ontained for the nex 2 weeks! It might have been a bit more palatable if they stopped issuing cards the DAY BEFORE elections but the current time gap is unaaceptable. Indeed, if all people needed were their CID cards or their registration slips then MORE people would be able to vote.

If I was a skeptic, heaven forbid, I might suspect that the new system was set up to ensure that less of the "wrong" sort of people, ie those who are not too clued up on Union politics (read hack supporting types) would be able to vote. It would mean that imost of those voting would likely be the Union "regulars", potentially those people more likely to support the incumbent candidate(s)...

Mustafa then tells us that this is a neccessity for the new "better" online (read undemocratic) system- extolling its virtues since it will allow students on placements and in 21 campuses to vote. So it will be easier because now they need an extra form to fill. Extra photos taken. Extra time for the staff to process their cards. And people on work placements will really find it so much easier to travel in or send off to fill in such forms. Twaddle. People already have a swipe card, and a registration slip. If the system was more intelligent they would then be able to vote using that registration slip and not need another card!

As to the swipe card not being enough I think that is a bit of a canard too, as how many people would leave Imperial early (because they went to another uni prob outside london) and still continue to come to the Union.Not that many I suspect. If you had decided to leave IC for whatever reason( eg failure or dislike of the environment) you are unlikely to return to join the Hockey club...

Indedd are such numbers even significant since surely the Union should be able to cope with Full Capacity anyway (ie all students staying their entire course length)?

I can only suggest that Amram does not belong to a very strong society... almost all societies I have been involved in (Bar the depsocs) have have had numerous "members" who have left college that go to socials, events and just generally hang around.

Particularly if they have dropped out either temporarily or permenantly.

Points of Information from the Elections Committee

Just thought we'd clear up your assumptions about the current situation.

ULU are having to input all of this data onto their system for this election. In order to give us such a small length of time between the close of registration and the start of voting, ULU are employing extra staff to input this data (of particular importance, Union Card Number).

It is not wholly unacceptable to compare this to the registration period of a General Election, where you have to sign the register a bit of time before voting cards are issued. Therefore we could say that the current length of time is to allow the Union to "issue the voting cards".

If we were to have Union Cards issued up until the day before the elections, firstly ULU would have to employ people to work during the night (more than they are doing at the moment), and ICU would need to courier the forms across central London after 5:00 (when the offices closed).

To say that the system is unfair when the Elections Committee have been doing everything in their power to encourage people to get their Union Cards (short of frogmarching them into the Union Offices). Therefore, if they have not taken up the offer of the Elections Committee to get their Union Card, then there is very little we can do about it.

Besides current figures released to the Committee show that the majority of those students eligible to vote have taken up the offer and have registered for their Union Card, although this figure does not take into account the upsurge in Union Cards being issued over the past couple of weeks.

Having said all that, it is not unusual to, in the past, require students wanting to vote to have a Union Card. The only diffeence this time is the deadline.

For one thing it shows is that a student is elegible to vote (as not all students at the College are). Hence, we are more likely to fulfil our legal obligations by making sure people need to prove they have a right to vote.

It is also not pointed out that this system will allow many of the disenfranchised students of the past to vote. Take medical students, one day the ballot box was at St. Mary?s, the next at Charing Cross. This would be no good for students at the campuses who were at Charing Cross and then St. Mary?s, as they would, on both days, miss the ballot box. However, we now have a ballot box where all students can reach no matter the time of day, the campus, traffic conditions etc.

Just to point out, it is more undemocratic to allow one person who is ineligible to vote. I know personally someone who found Physics deathly boring, so transferred to a 3 year course. As a result, her College Swipe Card still shows itself as being valid. And, as she is still living by the college, she comes with us to the Union sometimes (when we decide to go). Are you saying she should be able to vote.

just to jump in on the swipe card discussion, in response to sebs and edwards comments about the odd person they know that returns to refondle their dying memories of our union... what is more of a serious point to what you raised is that if that persons card is valid after leaving imperial surely our main concern should be their ability to enter restricted areas and departments regarding the secruity of equipment and students rather than a plot of illegal voting.

i believe only something like 50% of the college have union cards, surley if we gonna talk about access and increasing the no. of voters this is an issue we have to address....

finally, i dont understand why an integrated system of ballot and e-voting was not taken up... not only does this allow those on far-reaching campuses to vote, but the interacive aspect of balloting voting is just as important... once again we have opted for the boring method of not allowing students to get hands-on with what ever event is happening around uni. instead of uniting everyone through as many different types of medium as possible we've depromoted everyone into their computer rooms and bedrooms for what should be a very fun and interesting week.

Actually it is extremely worrying. The whole point of sabbatical elections is to elect students into office. I am disappointed in the current president, as well as the deputy president for clubs and societies, for deciding to stand again. We are repeatedly told that the union is out of touch with its own students. Therefore it is even more important for the President (who after all is the ultimate student representative ) to have recently been a student.

It was a mistake for Sen to have a second term, and it would be a mistake for the current president to have a second term.

Ashkan:

College security is not so much the unions concern.

However, to put your mind at rest, for some reason the magnetic strips seem to get deactivated so people can't use the doors anymore, but the CID number still flags you up as on the course even though you are not.

However, this is not the issue: the point is that clubs DO register non-student members, either people who have left, staff members, friends, sometimes even entirely fictional members, and thus can "meet" their membership quotas. This amounts to defrauding the C&S budgets.

Thus the union needs a membership card system, and it sounds like the College Swipe Card has problems. As to 50% of people not having a card, well, I don't know about you but I keep seeing these signs everywhere saying "no card - no vote". What else can they do?

What, precisely, is the difference between putting a piece of paper in a box and clicking a mouse button? Is it more interactive? Isn't that what the hustings are for?

Besides which, the historicaly low turnout with the ballot boxes, far lower than the number of people with union cards and eligable to vote, tends to sugest that the root of the problem is not people being shut out of the system, or a lack of interaction, but simply the fact they just don't care enough about the union to vote.

As for the terrible turnout for the position of President, there is always the option of voting RON (Re-Open Nominations).

And hope there is then a better turnout...

Which might be the case, since the people who lost elections to the DP positions have a chance to stand for president.

Can you explain the rules that you're applying to election related posts?

Several seem to have gone recently and I can't see why. I know its got something to do with election rules, but i'm stil confused

Open debate, including constructive criticisms where applicable, of policies and candidates is welcomed.

However to ensure a fair election the media are mandated to ensure fair treatment of candidates.

Insults directed at candidates will be censored.

I will always try to keep the meaning (in terms of opinions on policies etc) of posts wherever possible. If you have an issue with a particular edit please email me directly.

hmmm two year sabbs?

staff should provide continuity and yet we have just as much staff turnover.

I had a poor handover and my key member of staff left very soon after my start. A lot of my problems were caused because I got little continuity from the staff. We've just got a new student services manager and are about to recruit a new general manager. If ever there was a need for two year sabbs it is now (with such little continuity in the staff). I lost contact with the students through spending so much time trying to find out what was going on. Now that I am in a more confident position I am able to go back to liasing with clubs and students and representing their opinion.

there's always two sides to the argument and there are no straight lines.

I've learnt a lot from this year and perhaps what I worry most about is depriving a new candidate of that opportunity for their own personal development, but if I were to think about the Union then I would say that with the right candidate then a two year sabb role would be best for the Union.