And I thought Live! charged for advertising - or does it depend who you know?

So how are the 1 in 10 students that survive on £10/week going to afford this?

I'm sure that the food at the summer ball will not fill me up for 6 weeks to follow.....

Far too expensive.

Hahahaha, so true. Why not just hold the ball at hombre's on ladies night?

"If you’re not a music fan, there will be ... IC’s own Jazz Big Band"

Slightly harsh, I feel.

<sigh> you should really read things more carefully (can trip you up in exams that sort of mistake)

"If you're not a music fan, there will be a casino and games, otherwise..."

i.e. if you are a music fan

" ....IC's very own Jazz Big Band"

£5 at Hombres will get you a lot more than it will at the ball, not to mention all the lovely ladies that go there......

Isn't ladies' night at Hombres the weekly migration of about half of Essex to the West End?

I heard they had sold under 60 tickets with only 3 weeks to go. Oh well....

Or to put it differently...

Only four days into the summer term and they've already sold about 100 tickets!

Yeh but tickets have been on sale since last term.....

i disagree: the semicolon is pivotal in this matter.

".......otherwise more live bands you can wave a chick at"

Good God: there's going to be satanic pagan animal rituals going on too! Excellent.

Myself and my other half have decided not to go as it appears this year won't be as good a value for money as last year.

Last year we had the choice of rooms for music, it appears at first sight that you're going to be stuck with whatever music is going to be playing at a certain time.

Also, there are no dodgems.

And it's in the middle of exams!

Still, John Moloney was a good idea.

yeah, but it's a Friday night... as if you'll be revising otherwise ;-)

Anyway I can talk - my last exam is the Monday before the ball, so I'm going!

So what happens if noone goes to the ball? Will clubs and socs take another massive cut to cover the losses?

With exams on Friday afternoon and with ACP on monday and this my finals?

Hell yeah I'll be revising! If not Friday night then saturday morning early.

Or we could all go to Wye where they charge £60 and they get dodgems and fireworks, instead of rubbish music, miles from South Ken. In fact I bet it would take less time to go to Wye than Alexandra Palace!

So cr*p!!

i can't beleive they write "£55+....£5 on transport" !!!! it looks like a joke, especially if you read the article about what students live on per week!

Also whats so amazing or special about "dancing till 2am!!!" wow, never done that before. I know its to try and promote it and make it sound as good as possible but its not even a reasonable deal or £55+£5. Hopefully you do it at the campus next year as the photos and description sound really good!

I think any judgements about the music are a little pre-emptive. It should be quite good - Scott Mills is quite a recognisable name.

And Wye isn't exactly down the road. Once you're having to take a bus/train a little extra won't make a difference.

I don't quite know what people expect. It seems a bit of a self-fulfilling prophesy. People saying 'it's going to be c**p' will cause people not to go and hence it will be c**p. If people stop being so f**king negative about things and actually try it could turn out to be a really good night

Well it takes about 1.5 hours to get to Wye. With the North Circular jammed up on a Friday night it will take the same amount of time...

Let me see - shall I spend £60 on a night at the IC Summer Ball, or should I spend much less on a nice meal in London and a night out on a day after I have finished my exams??

Is anyone having trouble with their IC outlook account?

mine does not seem to work???

Also- re the ball- £60 (including transport) is absolutely ridiculous! They could have got away with £25 -£30. this would be quite enough for good food (not overpriced nouvelle cuisine rubbish) and decent entertainement. Especially if they had held it within Imperial College and so cut ALL rent costs. FYI, a very poshy wedding at a Knighstbridge hotel costs- around £30 a head- although this doesn't include music and floral arrangements...

They couldn't have done it for less in college – the decision to go to Alexandra Palace and charge £55 was made on financial grounds. There was no way to do it in college and make it financially viable, since the other costs incurred – from staff, to security, to mobile bars and the marquee – far outweigh the saving from not having venue hire.

If it had been in college, then the non-food price would have had to have been more like £40 to make it viable, and it was decided that they could not offer enough on site to make that a reasonable price.

Summer Ball?

£60?

In the middle of exams?

Why don't you just call it "the last Summer Ball ever".

We've already decided what to do with that £60. I'm paying for 60 malaria jabs for children in Africa, my flatmate is off to Dublin for the weekend, and one of my friends has already bought his ticket to Glastonbury.

That's what we're going to do with £60.

A few points.

Firstly £60 isn't that much more expensive than last years full ticket. The only reason people are complaining is because there isn't an ennts only ticket. That is just something people will have to put up with. There is always the union if people want to drink.

Secondly where ever you put the ball it will be in the way of peoples exams. I challenge anyone to find a day this term where someone hasn't got a exam too close for comfort. It is a Friday afterall. It's probably the best date as most final year engineering students (the ones I've talked to atleast) have finished their exams by then.

Thirdly if you don't think it's worth it - don't go. That doesn't however mean that you should post comments on live whining about that fact that you don't think it's worth it. Have a little community spirit -don't spoil it for the rest of us. Also if you don't think it's worth it and that you could have done better then why didn't you offer to help out?.

In short. Stop moaning it isn't going to do anything now, several months ago it may have worked.

Why didn't we offer to help out? Well lets see, Sabbaticals are elected (even if the process is somewhat farsical) to carry out such jons FULL TIME. they get paid, to do it. We are students at IC, we have barely enough time to get some sleep- heck i haven't got that much during the last week of exams- but we should spend our few spare hours planning things that our paid elected sabbaticals are supposed to do- that is the height of arrogance.

Sorry- £60 is a JOKE. The money could be spent on much more enjoyable sets of activities. As I understand it the price does not include drink- ie it is not an open bar. So what are we getting for £60. OK lets see, an event held far from the centre of town, where there will be rubbish dressed as lamb food- nouvelle cuisine- and a band. for £30, one could have a meal out (say £13 ) go to a club (say £7) and buy a few drinks (say £7) and have the same experience for half the price. This has not been thought through properly- the opportunity cost of £60 makes it unlikely that many students will think it worthwhile to attend. It will largely be a hack-centred event. I don't believe for one minute that using college would be more expensive as "steve" points out since rent for the Union premises is nill and College would have agreed low prices for use of other places- ie Great Hall JCR?SCR? If they didn;t agree reasonable prices (below some outside hall/hotel) then that IS THE FAULT OF THE SABBATICALS who clearly were unable to negotiate properly.

This is Live! - if you don't like people criticising the ball then don't read the comments.

As for Sabbaticals, those responsible will be long gone by the time any real loss/profit is worked out.

Oh well it seems like they can quite happily risk £30k of union money without any worries about the clubs and socs it will reduce funding to if it all goes wrong.

Maybe they should see what students want before doing what they they think students want, or even just what their own personal agenda is.

"That doesn't however mean that you should post comments on live whining about that fact that you don't think it's worth it."

UPROAR

I have been priced out of this year's summer ball and I am not happy about it, therefore I will verbalise that discontent.

My opinion represents that of many of other students at Imperial who were looking foward to going to the summer ball. Hopefully next year we can do away with the posh nosh and have some decently priced tickets.

SCANDALOUS

People want to celebrate in style without having to break the bank.

Does anyone know what is going on wit IC Outlook- or is just my PC- Help!

It's "steve" here. Why the quotation marks Amram? That's my real name. It's even my email (without the ic.ac.uk bit) in the email section.

It isn't purely the Sabb's job to organize the ball. There is a ball committee which I believe people were invited to join and could hence have input into the ball. It's a little rich sitting back and expecting someone else to do the work and then complain about it when you don't like the result. And for you information I'm not one of the ones organising the ball. Oh and I believe it's been discussed in council which anyone can attend and I believe speak at provided they care.

The ball doesn't have as big a budget as last year. I don't think college are giving them any money this year unlike the past few although I may be wrong about. I also may be wrong about the fact that college are underwriting it and so clubs wouldn't lose money. To imply that the sabbs will be long gone and hence don't care if it makes a loss is probably deeply offencive to those involved.

Since the event could not be held in college Ally Pally was the only place that was free (most places need atleast a year advance to find a free place). Also hence the date. It isn't the rent that's an issue with college it's the other costs, security and setting up bars etc.

The tickets aren't that much more expensive than last year for the full ticket.

My point about whining is that it won't do anything. It's too late. You can complain but it is all too late, doing so earlier might have been worth it all it's going to do now is put people off that might have gone. Not very community spirited.

Can I suggest that next year you get involved in sorting out the ball since all of you think you can do better.

Have it on the last day of term.

Nobody has exams.

The fact halls closes the next day is a stupid excuse not to do it then, as they all go out and get hammered anyway regardless of the fact they are going home (early) the next day. The first years hardly make up all the people going to the ball anyway.

A fair few bods will have had their exam results, both finalists and the others, and will be up for a top bash.

And don't bother saying, but everyone will have gone home. At other unis they sometimes even hold it after the end of term, and people still come back as it really will be the last big gig of the year.

The sixty pound price ticket is really expensive too, that is obvious from the distinct lack of sales.

Have it on campus, it would have been cheaper, have food + ents tickets, and there will be lots of people who go, like last year.

So try it at the end of term, nobody has any excuses not to go. The number of people who would have "gone" home, is probably much smaller than those who can't go as no matter when it is held in the summer term at least one department has exams.

Plus who really wants to get a coach back from Alexandra Palace at 2am with fifty other drunk, and proably vomiting students. Not I.

Bring on the crawling home form South Ken, no public transport required.

"that is obvious from the distinct lack of sales."

How'd you know that? As a member of the committee, I've been trying to find out, however no one knows for certain, but it seems to be going quite well actually!

It amazes me how many people seem to have strong opinions on what should have been done about the ball and yet all they seem to do with them is post them here rather than sending them in a useful direction.

It's also amazing how people claim to know what is going on and say so here without realising they don't have a clue.

Reminds why I stopped reading this site in the first place, it's just full of people who are far too busy whingeing and moaning to get off their a*se and actually do something productive.

And yes I am posting using a pseudonym, deal with it, if you stopped your whining and thought about it you might be able to work out why.

Still, nice to get a 'FREE raffle entry' with your £60 ticket.

Just having a look at the menu for the Summer Ball...

What in the name of sod is a 'pithever of pumpkin'?

Imperial's medical school has such an infamous social reputation because its students are actually demonstrably loyal to it when they put on an event, exemplified by their Xmas Ball was sold out and by common opinion a fantastic event.

Perhaps if Imperial students actually put some effort into supporting rather than berating its summer ball then the event might - just might - be a success, and one worth repeating.

*sob*

Several people have asked me via MSN or email to find out what my article on the summer ball was like before the Editors had their cut.

Well basically, they published all of it, except the first four paragraphs - which they felt was more appropriate as a discussion comment than as part of the article.

So here, for your enjoyment (or otherwise), are the original four paragraphs. I put them on this thread since it seemed the most relevant as it provoked me into writing it.

• -----

This is Live! A student media publication of the City & Guilds College (the engineering and management bit of Imperial College, University of London). Most of you are vaguely normal IC students who care enough to read this. You lot are good – you are showing an interest in the Imperial community. Some of you, however, are hard core fanatics. Live! Is just one of a series of your ‘bitching haunts’. Depending on the nature of your frustration, the other places you use to vent it probably include the KCLSU Forum, Felix, UCL Union Messageboards, the uber-hackish Educationet, ULU Confidential, Israel Insider and Indy Media (to name a few). It’s this second group I have a problem with.

Firstly, let’s get a few things straight. I have no problem with freedom of speech. I helped create Live! and under my editorship we almost never ‘censored’ anything (even when it got a little personal). When an ICU President decided he could censor Live! I fought it all the way. To this day, I have opposed various people in College who want to reign in the student media. The more that student media is abused, the harder it is to defend this principle.

I have no editorial involvement with Live! these days but think that if anything the editors have been a little too weak in controlling the discussion threads – and Live! is the poorer for it. Back ‘in my day’ the discussions were relatively civilised and, whilst disagreements sometimes got heated, they were on the issues. Now we have the same two idiots talking to each other through umpteen different pseudonyms hurling abusing around, usually with no relevance to the news topic. Sometimes you also get the sad individual arguing with him/herself under different pseudonyms to try to prove a point. Guys, what’s the problem – did your mother not give you enough attention when you were little?

Freedom of the press is not a one-way street. In this country, it is generally accepted, that we are able to avoid censorship laws by virtue of the media exercising restraint and responsibility. The nature of some of the childish and/or vindictive carping on Live! is now such that if I was still running it I would long since have forced people to register (or at least use their College logins) to post comments.

• -----

"Now we have the same two idiots ... you also get the sad individual arguing with him/herself ...what’s the problem – did your mother not give you enough attention when you were little?"

...Possibly the least civilised and most abusive post I have ever read on Live.

SO WHY DON'T YOU INTRODUCE HOUSE RULES?

If you introduce irrational censorship (i.e. without a set of house rules) you might as well rename 'Live' as 'Dead'.

"...Possibly the least civilised and most abusive post I have ever read on Live."

Well you obviously haven't read much of live then..

Well at least you admit that that post WAS abusive and uncivilised.

I think Mustafa has a serious point here. It's understandable if he puts it a little strongly, I imagine most of us would be a bit miffed if we had to deal with college complaints about student media as often as he does.

Perhaps we should look at introducing mandatory registration, if anything to protect ourselves if and when the college complain.

It's also unclear how complaints about Live! should be handled. Complaints about Felix follow a clear and set procedure. To my knowledge complaints about Live! don't...

Yes that's what I've been saying for the past month! There is no procedure, there are no house rules, and posts can be removed at any moment without excuses being given.

To [reiterate|http://live.cgcu.net/extras/disclaimer.php:] if anybody has complaints regarding the removal of comments from Live! then those complaints should be emailed to the editor (editor@cgcu.net).

As a general point of interest, we have not, at the present time, recieved any complaints with regards the removal of posts from Live!

John, if you can spot any relevant differences between point 51 of the ICU Memorandum of Understanding and point 6.6.4 of the City and Guilds Media Group constitution, which reads "The Live! Editor shall operate in accordance with Code of Practice appended to the ICU Memorandum of Understanding. The Management Committee shall perform a role similar to the Press Complaints Commission in the case of disputes, and adjudicate the Live! Editor to abide by decisions reached.", then do let me know.

Otherwise I suggest that in future you inform yourself better before commenting on the running of clubs of which you will be a nominal head in a few months' time.

...And that is not a clear and set procedure because there are no explicit house rules for this forum. We can't have this complex adjudication procedure for every controversial post or thread. So this system is utterly flawed - there are no house rules. QED.

No one cares! Stop moaning about your comments get censored.

There was an initiative to begin www.liveisdead.co.uk already. Sadly, it did not manage to survive after a few weeks.

Why dun you stand for the Media Group Chair for next year? Mr Unimpressed?!!

Because I don't know what the Media Group Chair IS. (And I am not a hack).

Has anybody noticed how ridiculous the new admin building looks. What's it meant to be - a giant rubiks cube or sommat?

I would just like to point out that in deleting posts without justification Live is in contravention of Article 19, of Pt.III of the Geneva Convention (on Civil and Political Rights) where it states that:

"Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression...through any media of his choice."

And also (due to the absence of contributor rights) Article 16:

"Everyone shall have the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law."

Technically that makes 'Live' a target for regime change.

"Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression...through any media of his choice."

I think that means you can say what you want and you can do it verbally, on your own recording, in writing on your own paper or on your own a website.... etc etc etc, rather than you can say what you like on whichever website you like.

Of course, in practice, even this isn't really true because of things such as the Defamation Act which will make life difficult if you say certain things. Tricky business isn't it?

Unimpressed II,

I'm not impressed with your unimpressed status. If you wrote a letter to a newspaper, or the bbc website, doesn't mean they have to print it. So here it happens that you post and then the decision is made. If you don't know what's too close to the mark and might be censored (with or without guidelines) then you shouldn't be writing here, to be frank.

Now bog off and get on with some work, it's exam season isn't it?

here here!

Fog, why don't you fog off. "Here, here"? What's that supposed to mean. Don't you mean "Hear, hear".

Anyway that's it. The time has come for me to leave the discussion board and revise. For those people who haven't been keeping count: during my sejour at Live my arguments have been proved right a total of 20 times and wrong only once (on the EU thing).

So how sad does that make me? Not as sad as Starbuck.

Just because everyone else has given up and gone home does not mean that you have 'won'.

We're just so tired of your incessant whining that we've given up trying to reason with you. It's clearly a lost cause!

"my sejour"? What's that supposed to mean. Don't you mean "my sojourn"?

If you're going to be pedantic, at least do it properly.

I would say that makes you pretty sad as you're clearly getting off on this, whereas the rest of us just want you to get off of it.

one of these days a live! topic will contain a life changing, and thouroughly inspired comment.

one day....

Where there is no vision the people perish.